Young's New World Saison Kit and Temperatures

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Alimac019

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Hey folks,

I just put this kit together today, having made the APA recently and been pleased with the results.

I was hoping to get some feedback on temperature.

This is my first ever saison, so I am a little bit unsure on temperatures.

I've read around that people have fermented saisons over 30C (86F), though in the instructions it simply says to try and keep the fermentation around 24C (75F).

I've got a more or less constant temperature of around 26C/27C (79F/80F) where I am fermenting it - will this be sufficient?

It is also worth mentioning I pitched the yeast when the wort was 29C (84F), do you think this was too high? The instructions say between 20-32C (68-89F) so I went at the higher end to try and get extra spice to the beer.

Feedback would be great. Thanks!
 
PLEASE IGNORE THE ADVICE BELOW
I HAVE SINCE DISCOVERED THAT THE YEASTS USED IN THIS BREW
CAN FERMENT AT THE TEMPERATURES BEING USED!


Ouch!

There seems to be a number of kits on the market where the manufacturer suggests pitching and fermenting at a "high" temperature. I deeply suspect that this is so that the uninitiated see something happening within the first 24 hours!

Many of us ferment beers at between 18 and 20 degrees and try to pitch the yeast at the same temperature.

By pitching the yeast at a "high" temperature you may get the "extra spice" in the beer but some of us call this an "off-taste" because it can severely affect the desired taste, especially during the early weeks of conditioning. e.g Early this year I pitched a beer at a "high" temperature (about 24 degrees if my memory is correct) and finished up with a strong taste of grapefruit. It took over a month of conditioning in bottles on the shelf to remove the grapefruit taste, at which time it became a very nice brew.

As your brew is underway I suggest that you don't do anything drastic but moving it to somewhere cooler (about 20 degrees or slightly less) than the "constant temperature of around 26C/27C" would probably be better than leaving it where it is.

The next tip is, once you have moved it, don't touch it for at least ten days and even then only if the air-lock has stopped bubbling for at least two days.

Hope this helps. :thumb: :thumb:

I AM LEAVING THE ORIGINAL POST AS A REMINDER
TO ME TO KEEP MORE UP TO DATE!
 
Not "OUCH!" at all, I'm guessing the previous poster isn't really aware of what a Saison is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saison

The yeast supplied is specifically meant to be used at much higher temperatures than an English ale yeast. Unusually you want the flavours in the beer that the yeast will impart by fermenting at a higher temperature.

To the OP, sounds like you are doing exactly the right thing, the instruction state that a temperature of at least 24C is required so 26C will be fine. From the kit instructions:

"Ambient temperature range 20-32 °C for Saison and the warmer the better. Greater than 24 °C will not impair quality of Saison (it will actually improve yeast character)"

Good luck, and keep us posted as to how it turns out. Be tempted to give this a go one day although having never tried a commercial saison I've no idea if it's a beer style I'd like or not. Should probably seek out a bottle.
 
"Mea culpa!" on modern methods and yeasts! Sorry.

However, as the article states:

"Brewing outside the summer months was common for all brewers before the discovery of refrigeration,
due to the likelihood of the beer spoiling while fermenting in the summer,
the height of airborne bacteria activity.
Farmers possibly also brewed during the cooler months to provide work
for their permanent staff during the quieter period."​

In other words, traditionally a Saison beer was fermented at a cool temperature.

In an effort to get up to date I read this as well ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupont_Brewery

I was very interested to read the high temperature at which fermentation can take place and ...

"Unfiltered and bottle-conditioned, Saison Dupont is packaged in green glass bottles
of a thickness appropriate to withstand the substantial carbonation.
The bottles are finished with a champagne-style cork and wire cage."

It sounds an ideal brew for the summer so thanks for the education now all I need to do is to find a bottle of Saison Dupont to get some of their yeast! :thumb: :thumb:
 
Thanks guys!

Yeah, I had no massive concerns about fermenting above 26 degrees, thought it was worth checking the experience of other people. My only real concern was pitching at 29C.

Having said all that, the airlock was bubbling away and more active than any other brew I've done to date, and after only 4 or 5 hours! This morning it was more or less a constant bubble. Bit worried the airlock may well explode!

I'll keep you posted on the progress - I've heard great things about this kit.

Thanks for all your comments!
 
I did this kit a year ago, fermented at around 27-28 degrees and it was one of the most successful kits I've ever done. Do yourself a favour though, don't just throw the hop pellets in as it suggests - use a hop sock or an empty tea bag or something or you'll end up with a clogged syphon or hop debris in the beer...
 
Ah yes, I did the APA kit from Young's and got a huge amount of hop pellet sludge and ****e. I have purchased a bag for this now. Quick question on this, do I need to sterilise the bag before it goes in or is boiling it in hot water before addition enough?

Thanks!
 
Ah yes, I did the APA kit from Young's and got a huge amount of hop pellet sludge and ****e. I have purchased a bag for this now. Quick question on this, do I need to sterilise the bag before it goes in or is boiling it in hot water before addition enough?

Thanks!

Personally, I would just sterilise the bag in hot water if I used this method.

However, so far I have just thrown the hops directly into the FV on the basis that this is the best way to make sure that I get the most I can out of the hops.

When it comes time to move the hopped beer to the bottling bucket I then fold a hop bag over to give me six layers of filtration (because the weave in the hop bag is quite loose), wrap this around the bottom of a sterilised syphon tube (with the "U" in place), secure the hop bag with a tie-wrap, dip the lot into boiling water for a couple of minutes and then immediately use this to syphon the beer into the bottling bucket.

My thinking for both methods is that the small amount of water left on the muslin bag after boiling it is less damaging in terms of taste than the equivalent amount of sterilising fluid. :thumb:

(Also, if you squeeze out the sterilising fluid after sterilising the hop bag are you not reintroducing the stuff you have just so carefully removed?):whistle:
 
I did this kit during the hot weather we had in August. It has been in the bottle for almost 3 weeks. It's a lovely amber clear pint, nice 'fluffy' head. The 'New World' hops seem to complement the flavours produced by the yeast.

A little unsure about the sour note to the beer, never tried a saison before. I've got a feeling though that this is going to grow on me and I am going to really appreciate it in time. Not a session drink though!

I've done a few of these Young's kits now, and I really do think that they are great.
 
I did this kit during the hot weather we had in August. It has been in the bottle for almost 3 weeks. It's a lovely amber clear pint, nice 'fluffy' head. The 'New World' hops seem to complement the flavours produced by the yeast.

A little unsure about the sour note to the beer, never tried a saison before. I've got a feeling though that this is going to grow on me and I am going to really appreciate it in time. Not a session drink though!

I've done a few of these Young's kits now, and I really do think that they are great.

I am always impressed by the saisons I do and would not be put off by the initial taste, as this will fade nicely over time.
 
I did my NWS at 22 degrees and in 3 days when I get home I will be able to open a bottle and tell you how it turned out !! I hate waiting...although it is easier when I am at work on a rig at sea !!
 
I did this kit during the hot weather we had in August. It has been in the bottle for almost 3 weeks. It's a lovely amber clear pint, nice 'fluffy' head. The 'New World' hops seem to complement the flavours produced by the yeast.

A little unsure about the sour note to the beer, never tried a saison before. I've got a feeling though that this is going to grow on me and I am going to really appreciate it in time. Not a session drink though!

I've done a few of these Young's kits now, and I really do think that they are great.

I've done a few of the Young's kits too, and I reckon this is by far the best.
 
I did my NWS at 22 degrees and in 3 days when I get home I will be able to open a bottle and tell you how it turned out !! I hate waiting...although it is easier when I am at work on a rig at sea !!

Absence makes the heart grow fonder :whistle:

Would be interested in your thoughts on your brew when you get to try it.
 
Hey guys,

Little update on my saisons.

I made two of these kits, customising the second one slightly.

I did the first as the instructions demanded, though on my second batch (done a day later) I dry-hopped with 120g of citra instead of the New World hops. I did this because I'd had a delicious citra saison a month or so before.

Both are beginning to taste great, especially the citra hopped one. There is a slight sour note there, but I don't think this is due to brewing error, I just think is the 'pure' saison flavour.

I think I prefer the citra hopped beer, as do many of my friends. They find it a lot kinder on the pallet, and it does seem to take on a combo of a pale ale and saison style.

They have been about 2 months in the bottle now - any advice for optimum drinking time? I was thinking after 4 months they may well be at their best?

Look forward to hearing how your saisons came out.

Onto the IPA kit next, then after that I am going to invest in a big boiler and start on some malt extract brews.

Thanks!
 
I did this kit during the hot weather we had in August. It has been in the bottle for almost 3 weeks. It's a lovely amber clear pint, nice 'fluffy' head. The 'New World' hops seem to complement the flavours produced by the yeast.

A little unsure about the sour note to the beer, never tried a saison before. I've got a feeling though that this is going to grow on me and I am going to really appreciate it in time. Not a session drink though!

I've done a few of these Young's kits now, and I really do think that they are great.

Yep. I'm sold on this. The 'sour' note has faded, and the spice and hops have come through. Best slightly chilled in my view.

Highly recommended, you won't get a pint like this in the pub, a bit different. These Young's kits are soooooooooooo good!
 
How long have yours been conditioning/sitting around for? I'm still getting a slight hint of sour, but nothing like before. I'm wondering what the longest period of time is that I can leave them until they are optimum.
 
How long have yours been conditioning/sitting around for? I'm still getting a slight hint of sour, but nothing like before. I'm wondering what the longest period of time is that I can leave them until they are optimum.

Mine was in FV 3 weeks and and as I type 4 weeks in bottle. I think with this one it's a case of balancing time for the beer to mature with the fading of the hops.
 
Afternoon All!

Does anyone have a link to a hop bag that has been mentioned a few times in this thread?

Also, did people follow the instructions and stir the yeast in? I have previously just sprinkled on the top and thought this was the best method?
 
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