The boil query

Robin54 · Sep 24, 2016

When doing small batches Ive found that the amount of evaporation has been huge, and I gather this is to be expected when only trying to make 10 litres.
So, would it be acceptable to do the boil with the pot lid half on???...or is this a definite no, no??

Brewdoug · Sep 24, 2016

When I'm doing small batches on the stove top I tend to have the lid half on otherwise I get condensation dripping back into the pot off the cooker hood. Not seen any issues from doing this, but it is a nuisance.

GlentoranMark · Sep 24, 2016

The idea is to end up with a wort that is the right amount. If you lose too much to a boil them add more water before the boil. Keep records to work out how much you lose in the mash and boil and you will get it right eventually.

Robin54 · Sep 24, 2016

GlentoranMark said:
The idea is to end up with a wort that is the right amount. If you lose too much to a boil them add more water before the boil. Keep records to work out how much you lose in the mash and boil and you will get it right eventually.

Yep, I hear what you are saying, and I do spend a long time doing prep, but I just seem to be losing so much liquid during the boil in a 15 L vessel.
Any ideas on the "lid issue".

GlentoranMark · Sep 24, 2016

Just add more water pre boil, use a calculator to gt your numbers right. Boiling gets rid of unwanted vapours apparently so just keep the lid off. It's your final kettle volume that you want, how much water you add in the mash and boil is only a calculation to get you there.

I still get them wrong with 23L brews

Martybhoy · Sep 24, 2016

I use a cygnet boiler and evaporation is always high. I tend to overshoot my target SG, so I add some bottled spring water to cooled wort to reach my target SG, also called liquoring back. This increases volume and if the water is chilled, it helps cool the wort down that extra few degrees.

As for the lid issue, I was told it was essential to boil with lid off to allow DMS to escape, otherwise you would risk off flavours in your beer.

DoctorMick · Sep 25, 2016

Martybhoy1980 said:
As for the lid issue, I was told it was essential to boil with lid off to allow DMS to escape, otherwise you would risk off flavours in your beer.

That's my understanding too and dms gives a vegetable flavour in the beer I think which isn't something you'd want to be drinking.

MyQul · Sep 25, 2016

Leave the lid off and have a second pot with boiling water in it during your wort boil. As the wort boils off continually top up. You can see where you need to top up to as there's normally a scum ring (of break protiens) around the inside of the pot.
This is what I do for my concentrated wort boil so it doesn't get too concentrated and therefore effect hop ustilisation too much

yeastinfection · Sep 25, 2016

GlentoranMark said:
The idea is to end up with a wort that is the right amount. If you lose too much to a boil them add more water before the boil. Keep records to work out how much you lose in the mash and boil and you will get It right,

Wish I had seen this at the start of my HB venture, it simplifies the whole volume thing for me,
Didn't know if you could or could not top up up, didn't know when to do it,or to use hot or cold,
I know now, but I wish I'd have something like that at the start,
My first brews were on a wok style gas ring and I lost litres of wort in the boil off, so you can imagine how my beer tasted when I bottled 3ltrs instead of 5 and how dissapointed I was that so much work produced so little, beer,

Robin54 · Sep 25, 2016

DoctorMick said:
That's my understanding too and dms gives a vegetable flavour in the beer I think which isn't something you'd want to be drinking.

Thanks for the advice. Its what I thought as well, but sometimes you just want:thumb: a bit of reassuring advice.

geetee · Sep 25, 2016

You need to liquor back at the end of the boil. As the water evaporates the wort will get more concentrated and the present gravity will rise. So you add enough water to get you back to the desired target.

For instance if you are aiming for FG of 1050 and at the end of the boil you have 22 litres at 1058 then the calculation you need is 58 divided by 50 multiplied by 22. This gives 25.5 litres so you add the difference, 25.5 - 22 = 3.5 litres.

It is normal to add this in two halves so you can stir and check again but if you want just chuck it all in, stir well and take FG.

note! if you do add too much and go below the FG of 1050 then the only way is keep boiling or put up with the shortfall.

strange-steve · Sep 25, 2016

I think the whole dms issue is a little overblown, even when using supposedly problematic pilsner malts. The vast majority of modern British and continental malts have low enough levels of SMM (the precursor to dms) that it doesn't really cause problems. Has anyone here actually had major dms issues? I made a beer recently with pilsner malt which was boiled for 15 minutes and there was no dms. Brulosophy had a pilsner which had only a 15 min boil lab analysed and there was zero dms in it. I always leave the lid halfway on my boiler. Unless you are using less well modified floor malted pilsner malt then I don't think you'll have a problem.

Robin54 · Sep 25, 2016

strange-steve said:
I think the whole dms issue is a little overblown, even when using supposedly problematic pilsner malts. The vast majority of modern British and continental malts have low enough levels of SMM (the precursor to dms) that it doesn't really cause problems. Has anyone here actually had major dms issues? I made a beer recently with pilsner malt which was boiled for 15 minutes and there was no dms. Brulosophy had a pilsner which had only a 15 min boil lab analysed and there was zero dms in it. I always leave the lid halfway on my boiler. Unless you are using less well modified floor malted pilsner malt then I don't think you'll have a problem.

Thanks for that steve. Im tempted to do a boil with the lid half on and see what happens regarding the amount of boil off and whether flavour is affected. I only brew bitters by the way.:thumb:

Slid · Sep 25, 2016

All my partial mash stove top boils were done with minimal heat and a simmer of a boil. No lid on. I never had any off-tastes, but I did get one big load on gunk in the FV at the end of the ferment. Maybe 2L from a 12L boil and a 25L wort ferment.

Big step up from a kit beer, though :thumb:

chub1 · Sep 25, 2016

I did a couple of extract brews where i left the lid on and to be honest there were no off flavours!. I assume this dms thing would apply to extract as well as all grain?

Robin54 · Sep 25, 2016

chub1 said:
I did a couple of extract brews where i left the lid on and to be honest there were no off flavours!. I assume this dms thing would apply to extract as well as all grain?

Lid on lid off - extract v grain - you've just opened another whole can of worms

chub1 · Sep 25, 2016

Robin54 said:
Lid on lid off - extract v grain - you've just opened another whole can of worms

Robin at the time i was unaware that it could cause problems!I leave it off now BUT i do leave it on but slightly open whilst i am getting it up to the boil to try and cut down on the time lag

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