extract or all grain

Hi all,

Im a little unsure as to which I should start I am still quite young at the brewing scale, but I would like to move on from kits, but I have not got an unlimited amount of money.

Would I be best going for all grain or would I be best off sticking to extract brewing.

I am also looking at purchasing the following:

https://www.brewuk.co.uk/electrim-mashing-boiler.html

Has anyone got any experience of this set up and could they give me advice on wheteher this is the best set up to start off with.

Also will I need a chiller for completeing extract brews or will this boiler take me through to the last stage.

Thanks in advance

Big d 2657

The trade off between AG and extract is time vs money. AG is much cheaper but brewdays are longer (around 5 hours). Wheras extract is a lot faster to make (I've seen reciepes as short as 15 mins) but cost as much as kit brewing unless you but the extract in bulk (like 25kg)

Bigd2657 said:

Also will I need a chiller for completeing extract brews

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No, the beauty with Extract is that you boil at a reduced volume (typical 8-10L) then pour it in the FV and top up with cold water, so you don't need a chiller.

I've been a long-time Extract brewer and an AG brewer for the last 2 years, although I still do Extract. Personally I'm glad I did the Extract stage before AG but each to his own. The big downside to AG is the length of the brewing process, it depends which stage in life you're at but with a busy work and family life I can rarely find a quiet 5 hours to do an AG brew.

hi mqul,

If I was to buy the extract in bulk is there a certain way of keeping it, or can it just be left once its been used and resealed in a garage until I am ready to use it for the next brew.

Thanks in advance for the answer.

Big D 2657

Bigd2657 said:

hi mqul,

If I was to buy the extract in bulk is there a certain way of keeping it, or can it just be left once its been used and resealed in a garage until I am ready to use it for the next brew.

Thanks in advance for the answer.

Big D 2657

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I dont know tbh, as I never was an extract brewer. I went from kits to AG. Perhaps @Darrellm or another extract forumite can tell you?

I'm at the bulk extract / steeping grains stage, and as has been said previously. It is a brilliant first step. Weaning me from premium kits, and allowed me to improve my brewing and dispensing techniques without a huge outlay that i would probably mess up The range of beers you can make is amazing.

I keep my 25kg JC's in our catering fridge 2-6*C, so i'm a bit spoilt,,, Cooler is better, fresher is best!

The biggest challenge was setting up and documenting a system so I can repeat the brews I like. It might only seem like an insignificant step for most brewers, but I get such a sense of satisfaction. Still loads to learn and beers/ciders to enjoy!!! :thumb:

The thing with extract brewing is that your a mash tun away from all grain, ideally you do need a chiller and certainly a proper boiler for extract brewing. You could start with the boiler your looking at and do BIAB ( brew in a bag ) then later down the line get the equipment needed for all grain ( mash tun and sparge water heater ) Depends on your budget really, have you considered an all in one system like the Grainfather ? expensive but there are cheaper versions of it like the Ace micro brewery, bare in mind that all grain brewing can be ridiculously cheap in terms of ingredients versus extract which is probably about the most expensive way to brew. 5 Kilos of grain costs me less than £4.00 the equivalent amount of DME would cost me £14.00 add to the tally hops and yeast and an all grain brew can cost as little as £7.00 with extract coming in at £17.00 so the initial cost of an all grain set up can quickly off set its self.
Time of course is an issue, extract can shave around 1 - 2 hours of a brew day as you dont need to mash or sparge
The other thing to remember of course is that most extract brewers inevitably end up wandering down the path to all grain.
I realize that my reply has probably been no help at all but to sum it up

Extract = less money spent on equipment, more money on ingredients, less time, decent beer
All grain = More money on equipment, less money on ingredients, more time, amazing beer

I do extracts sometimes with a mini mash or steeped grains.

The biggest pack of dme i've used is 3kg. The problem is dme loves to soak up moisture so i'd not be confident in resealing an opened pack. however I have found when ordering 3kg they are often sent in 6 x 500g packs which is cool as its more flexible but you still get er brewed at the better price. As most of my recipes used 3kg of dme it's no hardship if it was delivered in a single bag.

oh you could save £2 quid by using a can of golden syrup (gs) instead of a 500g bag of dme and shortening the brew length a tad. e.g 2.5 dme + a can of GS

I think if you were to progress from kit - extract - extract & speciality grains - all grain that you might be happy to stop along the way at a cost vs time vs equipment vs beer quality that suits you.

Bigd2657 said:

If I was to buy the extract in bulk is there a certain way of keeping it

Click to expand...

Extract comes in 2 forms: liquid (LME) and dried (DME/spraymalt). 1.5kg LME is equivalent to 1kg of DME, so it's not like-for-like.

The liquid stuff can be really expensive, 10 quid for a 1.5kg tin of Coopers. Muntons do one in bulk called Cedarex which is 60 quid for 25kg so much cheaper, I've not used it although someone I work with says it's OK. I've used other cheap LME and they can be of variable quality.

Nowadays I much prefer DME. As others have said, it absorbs moisture and clumps up so I size my brews to use whole 1kg and 500g packets. It's also cheaper, you can get it for around 6 quid per kg. I just buy enough for a couple of brews at a time.

A few places sell Extract kits e.g. BrewUK and HBC. These can often be cheaper than buying the ingredients separatelym especially as HBC has the occsional sale with theirs down to 14.40 per pack (includes extract, hops and yeast) - the only downside is the limited range of recipe packs. These might be a good place to start though, I can really recommend the HBC American Brown and Porter Full Extract kits.
http://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.uk/extract-beer-kits-c-164.html

I do extract,partial mash and biab's .
have produced some very good beers using extract,both spray malt's and liquids along with steeped grains. You can use the recipie builder available on here to build your own brews or just nick known recipies from the vast amount on the net.:thumb:

The main problem with extract, is you will get more hooked on brewing and want to go all grain, then you will want to keg instead of bottle, then your cooler-box mash tun won't be as shiny as a Braumeister or some SS brewtech pot.
Just save up an go straight to the shiny stuff!

dad_of_jon said:

I do extracts sometimes with a mini mash or steeped grains.

The biggest pack of dme i've used is 3kg. The problem is dme loves to soak up moisture so i'd not be confident in resealing an opened pack. however I have found when ordering 3kg they are often sent in 6 x 500g packs which is cool as its more flexible but you still get er brewed at the better price. As most of my recipes used 3kg of dme it's no hardship if it was delivered in a single bag.

oh you could save �£2 quid by using a can of golden syrup (gs) instead of a 500g bag of dme and shortening the brew length a tad. e.g 2.5 dme + a can of GS

I think if you were to progress from kit - extract - extract & speciality grains - all grain that you might be happy to stop along the way at a cost vs time vs equipment vs beer quality that suits you.

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I was knocked out by how easy it is to make golden syrup.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsmTeszwwrY[/ame]

200g plus 50ml - add your citric acid / lemon juice initially
Then the rest of a 1kg bag of sugar and 450-500ml of boiling water.

Doing this for Belgian Beers, but used it ages ago in Ben Turner's Bitter beer made with DME and Golding Hops.

dad_of_jon said:

I do extracts sometimes with a mini mash or steeped grains.

The biggest pack of dme i've used is 3kg. The problem is dme loves to soak up moisture so i'd not be confident in resealing an opened pack. however I have found when ordering 3kg they are often sent in 6 x 500g packs which is cool as its more flexible but you still get er brewed at the better price. As most of my recipes used 3kg of dme it's no hardship if it was delivered in a single bag.

oh you could save �£2 quid by using a can of golden syrup (gs) instead of a 500g bag of dme and shortening the brew length a tad. e.g 2.5 dme + a can of GS

I think if you were to progress from kit - extract - extract & speciality grains - all grain that you might be happy to stop along the way at a cost vs time vs equipment vs beer quality that suits you.

Click to expand...

Provided you decant any unwanted spray malt to an airtight container straight away, it keeps fine,but as you say moisture is it's bug bear:-(

I'm very new, but am interested in taking it further. Sadly I can't see myself having the time to do All Grain very often, so would like to learn some extract Brewing techniques. Can anyone point in the direction of a good link to how it's done. Mostly it seems to be AG or kits.

Hi pal,
I was really itching after 30 odd years going away from kits..it's all @fil fault hahaha!! Sold me my first AG system and I was hooked.
Never got round to BIAB etc.
Everyone to there own as said in this thread.
Time, is a good point! But the price and room to brew is also a factor.
How many time you brew! What volumes!
And how dedicated to the hobby..why we brew...that is the question.
For me learning, and getting better and learning from my mistakes.
Just love it! Tried all types of hobbies but this one...taste nice! :thumb:
Bri

Global33 said:

Can anyone point in the direction of a good link to how it's done.

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Most of the videos on Youtube are pretty poor to be honest. Your best bet is to buy an extract kit from somewhere like BrewUK and have a go, you only need a 12L or 15L stockpot to get going.

Here's the instructions from a BrewUK extract recipe pack that tell you what to do (I've omitted the full recipe as that'll be copyright). Ignore the bit in bold as there's little point in doing a full-volume boil for Extract.

Thank you. So if the Malt gives something to for the yeast to turn to alcohol as well as a "fuller" beer and the hops add flavour and aroma what are the grains doing? Are they also flavour?

If your adding cold water to the wort does this remove the need to cool it?

Global33 said:

If your adding cold water to the wort does this remove the need to cool it?

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I have 6 2L pop bottles that I use to top up the wort to the final volume, I put a couple in the fridge which helps bring the temp down

Hi BIGD
I was in the same position as you last year so I purchased the BIAB peco setup including a copper chiller from homebrew company in ireland
I have not looked back and with this setup you can choose one of their all grain mashkits free to get you started
Contrary to belief the peco is a good boiler and does the job and the chiller works fine also the boil in the bag method with no sparge(thats what I do and recommend) is simple just lifting the bag out is the only hard bit due to weight.
Go with that system it is a reasonably cheap bundle just look on there site and you can just add to it later if you want to go to a 3 pot system. A lot of brewers have come back from 3 pot to BIAB for ease of use and you can do any recipe just the same as 3 pot brewing
thats my thoughts best of luck mate

Global33 said:

Thank you. So if the Malt gives something to for the yeast to turn to alcohol as well as a "fuller" beer and the hops add flavour and aroma what are the grains doing? Are they also flavour?

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The grains give it colour and a bit of flavour. Malt on it's own would produce a very pale beer. Some recipes have extra grains (that one was for a brown beer), some don't.

Global33 said:

If your adding cold water to the wort does this remove the need to cool it?

Click to expand...

Yes, and that's one of the big plus points about doing Extract. Depending on the ratio of boiled wort to added water, you may need to cool it a bit (dunking the boil pan in a sinful of cold water for 15min usually works), but nothing like trying to cool 23L of boiling wort which can take an hour with a cooling system.