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Old 01-06-2017, 08:24 PM   #11
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I have similar water to you and plan to do an IPA on sunday. So I would be interested to know which direction you will be going to treat your water.
I was hoping to avoid going the bottled water route.
I like the sound of diluting the water down rather than adding an ever increasing range of additives to make my tap water suitable, but it would also be good not to have add a trip to tesco to brewday preparations.
Is RO water from an aquarium shop OK, does anyone know, as it would get boiled? There's one close to me.
I'll also make sure I get some latic acid as using it in combo with the AMS sounds like the best option if diluting isn't possible on brewday for any reason.
Listened to an intersting Bewing Network podcast yesterday (think it was quite old) where John Palmer was suggesting that light malts would increase alkalinity and only dark darks reduce it, so for pale beers we should be aiming for zero or even negative residual alkalinity in the water.
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:27 AM   #12
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I like the sound of diluting the water down rather than adding an ever increasing range of additives to make my tap water suitable, but it would also be good not to have add a trip to tesco to brewday preparations.
Is RO water from an aquarium shop OK, does anyone know, as it would get boiled? There's one close to me.
I'll also make sure I get some latic acid as using it in combo with the AMS sounds like the best option if diluting isn't possible on brewday for any reason.
Listened to an intersting Bewing Network podcast yesterday (think it was quite old) where John Palmer was suggesting that light malts would increase alkalinity and only dark darks reduce it, so for pale beers we should be aiming for zero or even negative residual alkalinity in the water.
I may go for diluting with Ashbeck maybe 10 litres this time (doing a 23 litre batch) and calculate acid and mineral additions from there.
Next time I am near my nearest home brew shop I will pick up some lactic acid.

Does anybody know the mineral content of Ashbeck?
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Old 02-06-2017, 09:57 AM   #13
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I may go for diluting with Ashbeck maybe 10 litres this time (doing a 23 litre batch) and calculate acid and mineral additions from there.
Next time I am near my nearest home brew shop I will pick up some lactic acid.

Does anybody know the mineral content of Ashbeck?
Mineral content of Ashbeck, the alkalinity isn't listed but iirc it's about 10 or 15ppm:
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Old 02-06-2017, 10:17 AM   #14
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@dan125 RO water from the aquarium shop should be fine I'd imagine, I'm sure I've heard others say they use it.

Residual alkalinity isn't quite the same as the alkalinity that you measure with a KH kit, although related, it takes hardness into account too. Tbh RA is not something I bother with, I think it complicates what is already a fairly complex subject. I find if you aim roughly for these general guidelines your mash pH will take care of itself:
For a pale beer <20ppm
For an amber beer ~35ppm
For a brown beer ~75ppm
For a black beer ~120ppm
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Old 02-06-2017, 11:16 AM   #15
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Mineral content of Ashbeck, the alkalinity isn't listed but iirc it's about 10 or 15ppm:
Thanks for that Steve, hopefully I will have time to do calcs at work today
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Old 07-06-2017, 10:45 PM   #16
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Hi Steve, do you think the following ratio would taste a bit minerally?
Sulphate 274 mg/L
Chloride 82 mg/L
It gives me a ratio of 3.34 and it's for an IPA.
I could alternatively make it
Sulphate 219 mg/L
Chloride 82 mg/L
It gives me a ratio of 2.67
Cheers
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Old 08-06-2017, 08:18 AM   #17
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Hi Steve, do you think the following ratio would taste a bit minerally?
Sulphate 274 mg/L
Chloride 82 mg/L
It gives me a ratio of 3.34 and it's for an IPA.
I could alternatively make it
Sulphate 219 mg/L
Chloride 82 mg/L
It gives me a ratio of 2.67
Cheers
Yes it probably will, however in some styles that might be desirable (Burton style IPA for example). Personally I'm not a big fan of the slightly harsh bitterness you get with high sulphate (although some love it) and so I would go for low lower amount. I believe that less is more when it comes to water content which is why I use RO water with minimal additions.

I should have said in the OP, but there are some very knowledgeable people (AJ Delange for example) who firmly believe that the sulphate:chloride ratio is not worth bothering with and that it is in fact the absolute concentration of ions which matters more than the ratio. However I have noticed that brewing water chemistry is such a complex subject that even the experts have disagreements.

Sulphate and chloride additions should be viewed as seasoning, ie. they should be added according to your personal taste. Unfortunately this requires some trial and error to get right, but I think that too little is better than too much and so it's best to err on the side of caution.
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Old 08-06-2017, 09:12 AM   #18
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Yes it probably will, however in some styles that might be desirable (Burton style IPA for example). Personally I'm not a big fan of the slightly harsh bitterness you get with high sulphate (although some love it) and so I would go for low lower amount. I believe that less is more when it comes to water content which is why I use RO water with minimal additions.

I should have said in the OP, but there are some very knowledgeable people (AJ Delange for example) who firmly believe that the sulphate:chloride ratio is not worth bothering with and that it is in fact the absolute concentration of ions which matters more than the ratio. However I have noticed that brewing water chemistry is such a complex subject that even the experts have disagreements.

Sulphate and chloride additions should be viewed as seasoning, ie. they should be added according to your personal taste. Unfortunately this requires some trial and error to get right, but I think that too little is better than too much and so it's best to err on the side of caution.
Cheers Steve, I was thinking similar, last time I did an IPA I just added CRS to my 190 Alk tap water then Gypsum and Epsom Salts according to the Forum Old Water Calculator.
It definitely tasted of minerals. So when I did my saison I halved the amount of Gypsum and added no Epsom Salts and it came out really good.
Last night I worked out my numbers using lactic acid for my 20 litre mash and CRS to my 12 litre sparge, with Gypsum additions to both according to your chart.
Hopefully it will work out.
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Old 08-06-2017, 09:48 AM   #19
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Cheers Steve, I was thinking similar, last time I did an IPA I just added CRS to my 190 Alk tap water then Gypsum and Epsom Salts according to the Forum Old Water Calculator.
It definitely tasted of minerals. So when I did my saison I halved the amount of Gypsum and added no Epsom Salts and it came out really good.
Last night I worked out my numbers using lactic acid for my 20 litre mash and CRS to my 12 litre sparge, with Gypsum additions to both according to your chart.
Hopefully it will work out.
Well that's exactly why I'm not a fan of CRS, a reduction of 100ppm alkalinity using CRS adds about 70ppm chloride and 100ppm sulphate which is a lot and should be taken into consideration. I prefer lactic acid or acid malt. But I think if your tap water has a high alkalinity, say 200+, you are much better going down the route of dilution rather than using acids.
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Old 08-06-2017, 10:00 AM   #20
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I might give my local aquatic shop a call and see what they charge for TO water.
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