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Old 07-12-2017, 07:20 PM   #11
Zephyr259
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Originally Posted by Piperbrew View Post
So if this is one stage up from kits, whats the next stage.....how much more equipment is needed / skill and finally does each stage tend to yield better results?
I think the next stage after extract + speciality grains would be Brew in a Bag (BIAB), I was going to go from kits to extract like yourself but then I found the easy all grain thread here and found out you can do it very simply.

The basics is that you get a mesh laundry bag from a supermarket put the grains in there and mash (soak) in water at 65 - 70c for an hour. Remove the grains and boil the wort with hops at which point you're as per extract. This method let me do 8L batches, after 4 of them I bought a Grainfather as I was hooked on all grain.

Here's a link to the 3 BIAB equipment kits from geterbrewed.

For me the extra work of mashing (which isn't very hard) was a fair trade off compared to the price difference. Extract is expensive, my last 3 batches of beer have been 15L and have cost £4.69 (brown porter), £7.30 (saison) and £7.80 (bock), granted that excludes the yeast which can vary from <£1 to the £7 liquid I'm using (and reusing which is why I exclude it's cost). Also mashing lets me play with so many different malts which interests me more than hops.

Hope that helps and I didn't misunderstand your question.
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:38 PM   #12
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If I'm not correct, please correct me!:

Boiling extract for a few minutes is advised for sanitary purposes, and probably helps dissolving.
Boiling hops for an hour is needed to get the bitter out of it, special malts need the full hour too to get them into the wort. Aroma hop less than 15 minutes, or even added post-boil.

Twang is a weird taste that some people experience in extract kit brews.

Partial boil is where people for a for instance 5 gallon batch, only start to boil 4 gallons or less (high gravity brewing), and at the end top up again to 5 gallons. The same grain amount is needed as for 5 gallons, but the hop might need longer boiling to reach expectations.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:05 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Zephyr259 View Post
I think the next stage after extract + speciality grains would be Brew in a Bag (BIAB), I was going to go from kits to extract like yourself but then I found the easy all grain thread here and found out you can do it very simply.

The basics is that you get a mesh laundry bag from a supermarket put the grains in there and mash (soak) in water at 65 - 70c for an hour. Remove the grains and boil the wort with hops at which point you're as per extract. This method let me do 8L batches, after 4 of them I bought a Grainfather as I was hooked on all grain.

Here's a link to the 3 BIAB equipment kits from geterbrewed.

For me the extra work of mashing (which isn't very hard) was a fair trade off compared to the price difference. Extract is expensive, my last 3 batches of beer have been 15L and have cost �£4.69 (brown porter), �£7.30 (saison) and �£7.80 (bock), granted that excludes the yeast which can vary from <�£1 to the �£7 liquid I'm using (and reusing which is why I exclude it's cost). Also mashing lets me play with so many different malts which interests me more than hops.

Hope that helps and I didn't misunderstand your question.
Thanks for the reply, yes exactly what I was asking )). I suppose what I need to do is make the extraction starter kit I just purchased and see how I get on, I will also look at the info. you pointed me too also. I suppose the main reason I initially asked about brewing in the beer keg I have is because if I am using extra ingredients I am a bit unsure of cooking a large pot on my cooker and it would be handy it I could do everything outside on a gas ring and keg.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:18 PM   #14
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I just looked at the all grain thread you kindly linked me to Zephyr and it looked straightforward. Though I saw people using boilers and cooling coils when I looked on YouTube which kinda blew my mind!.....what would be the reason for the cooling coils, is it time critical to cool things down? if I could maybe go the all grain route it would be handy as I might be able to get brewing malts etc from someone I know via a bit of good old bartering.

EDIT
Just looked at the starter kits, is that really all you need to do the mash....? ....a boiler, muslin bag and a wort cooler? (excluding other kit I have already of course)

If it is I already have a steel beg keg that I cut a round hole in the lid, all I need to do is buy a �£20 gas ring , put a tap into the keg and make a wort cooler with several metres of micro bore copper tube I have.
Looks like I might be doing all grain quicker than I thought! ....

Is the wort cooler a vital piece of kit or can the wort just cool naturally?

EDIT 2 ..I just went onto the Geterbrewed site and used there all grain recipe customizer. What a difference in price over LME/DME ....I think it will be a no-brainer, I will be going all grain pretty soon.

Cheers

Pete
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerritT View Post
If I'm not correct, please correct me!:

Boiling extract for a few minutes is advised for sanitary purposes, and probably helps dissolving.
Boiling hops for an hour is needed to get the bitter out of it, special malts need the full hour too to get them into the wort. Aroma hop less than 15 minutes, or even added post-boil.

Twang is a weird taste that some people experience in extract kit brews.

Partial boil is where people for a for instance 5 gallon batch, only start to boil 4 gallons or less (high gravity brewing), and at the end top up again to 5 gallons. The same grain amount is needed as for 5 gallon
but the hop might need longer boiling to reach expectations.
Answers to your questions.
There is no need to boil extract for 'sanitary reasons' if it is fresh out of an unopened can or sachet. But if you are taking some from a bulk store e.g 25kg drum that might be advisable. If you are making kits up from hopped LME is it recommended you use boiling water to soften and then help dissolve the LME. In extract brewing you need to boil the hops with malt to extract the bitterness and flavour just like in AG brewing. However it is not necessary to use all of the malt as I said above, unlike in AG where a full boil is necessary.
And twang is as you say a weird taste that is found in some kits and extract brews. There are several suggested reasons, and it is discussed on here in new threads about every six months (and nothing new ever comes of it )
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:44 PM   #16
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Just as an add on from the comments I have made above. I have just been looking at beer keg conversions for making beer in. There seems to be some people who use two or three kegs or other containers, one to mash in, on for sparging and one for boiling in.....have I got this correct?

Now my question is , would it be possible to do everything in one beer keg, just checking before I go ahead and make any changes to the one I have. What I was thinking is having the keg, mounted on a gas heater, the keg has an open top and a tap in the bottom to draw liquid off and either have a bag, or better still a stainless mess container in it which can be immersed in order the grains mash. The container (or even a bag) is then rasised and held above the liquid surface and the liquid held in the hot grains flows back into the keg by gravity. Am I also right in saying those grains should be sparged to glean all the sugars from them? , well I could set up a slow trickle of water over them to do this? Once all liquids have dripped back into the keg the grains in the containers or bag can be lifted clear and the gas heater turned back on in order to heat the liquor up. It can then be cooled with a separate copper cooling coil.

OR ...just heat the water and soak the grains in one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Igloo-Dur...YAAOSwU8hY6MHN

or this size as I am guessing it would be adequate for soaking the grain?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rubbermai...oAAOSwFYxZzETD

Then sparge and run all the liquid into the keg and heat up.

Am I correct with what I am saying ??

Many thanks in advance.

Pete
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:11 PM   #17
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The reason some of use three vessels is that it makes it easier.

Here's a photograph of my three-stage system.

The highest vessel is the Water Heater (used to heat the water for mashing and sparging).

The middle vessel is the Mash Tun (used for mashing the grain and then sparging it to rinse out the sugars in the wort).

The bottom vessel is the Boiler (used to boil the wort to drive off a bunch of things and get the bitterness from the hops).

The vessel in the second photograph is the Fermenting Vessel (with blow-off system) sat in the fridge ready to rock & roll.

I've never considered just using the one vessel for an AG brew but I will sanitise the Mash Tun and use it as a Bottling Bucket for the next brew!
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Three tiers.jpg   Bubble Tube.jpg  
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:41 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Dutto View Post
The reason some of use three vessels is that it makes it easier.

Here's a photograph of my three-stage system.

The highest vessel is the Water Heater (used to heat the water for mashing and sparging).

The middle vessel is the Mash Tun (used for mashing the grain and then sparging it to rinse out the sugars in the wort).

The bottom vessel is the Boiler (used to boil the wort to drive off a bunch of things and get the bitterness from the hops).

The vessel in the second photograph is the Fermenting Vessel (with blow-off system) sat in the fridge ready to rock & roll.

I've never considered just using the one vessel for an AG brew but I will sanitise the Mash Tun and use it as a Bottling Bucket for the next brew!

Like it, looks a lot easier when set out like that. How many litres of beer do you normally get from that set up? I think I will do something similar but without the top heater as I have no heating bucket like you so will most likely have to heat the water and transfer to the mash tub first. From what I am reading using the same container for everything might be a bit of a pain ie keeping the mash at temperature for a given time....easier just to use an insulated container.

Thanks for taking the time to show.
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:49 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piperbrew View Post
Like it, looks a lot easier when set out like that. How many litres of beer do you normally get from that set up? I think I will do something similar but without the top heater as I have no heating bucket like you so will most likely have to heat the water and transfer to the mash tub first.

Thanks for taking the time to show.
The Water Heater is an old (and scratched) ten quid FV from Wilco fitted with the element from a five-quid Tesco Kettle.

I brew in 23 litre batches. The volumes are:

o Hot Water = 25 litres

o Mash Tun = 32 litres

o Boiler = 32 litres

I decided that I am getting too old to be humping stuff around so I use a hose to fill the water heater and a trolley to move the FV about.

I've yet to solve how to get the boiled wort high enough to flow into the FV so I cool it and then lift the Boiler up to replace the Mash Tun. (The "cool it" bit was after I spilled some boiling wort over my foot earlier this year! )
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Drinking
Coopers Stout Kit + Grain (15/06/17)
AG Vienna Lager with Hallertau (12/11/17)
Wilco's Hoppy Copper Bitter (12/11/17)
Wilco's Pilsner with Lowicz Cherry Syrup (12/11/17)
AG Low ABV Pale Ale (19/11/17)

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Spiced Pumpkin Ale

Fermenting
Golden Pumpkin Ale
AG Oatmeal Stout

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Old 07-12-2017, 11:52 PM   #20
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BTW the Mash Tun is a converted Cool Box. It loses about 2 degrees in an hour. Here's a photo.
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Mash Tun.jpg  
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Drinking
Coopers Stout Kit + Grain (15/06/17)
AG Vienna Lager with Hallertau (12/11/17)
Wilco's Hoppy Copper Bitter (12/11/17)
Wilco's Pilsner with Lowicz Cherry Syrup (12/11/17)
AG Low ABV Pale Ale (19/11/17)

Carbonating/Conditioning
Spiced Pumpkin Ale

Fermenting
Golden Pumpkin Ale
AG Oatmeal Stout

Note:
(**/**/**) = Date ready to drink.
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