Salifert Ca Test Kit Changed - Help

[David Woods]

Hi, Having read Strange Steve's guide to water treatment I bought the kits he suggested - the kit for KH/Alk worked fine but his instructions showed the Ca kit with 3 bottles - mine only has 2 and I understand that's how they are now.

So anyone worked out how to do this test with the new kit?

I would be grateful for any help with this.

Thanks

Dave

 

[RichardM]

Aren't there instructions with the kit? From what I remember Steve's guide was the same as what comes with the kit but a bit more detailed and more pictures

 

[peebee]

Changed? Haven't had mine long, but it's got three bottles, although one is a small vial of crystals, which I could imagine them putting in a sachet now? Marked "Ca-1, they are the "indicator" (use the tiny spoon measure). There's a sodium hydroxide soln. conditioner (dropper bottle) "Ca-2." And the "reagent" "Ca-3". The latter is the important one you must be particularly precise with, hence the 1ml syringe. You have to be precise measuring out the water for testing too, hence the bigger syringe for that. But your problems may not end with lack of instruction:

I know you! We've chatted on this forum recently. And I know your water authority puts out an analysis that's particularly Cr... ! But particularly interesting too. They say a very low Calcium content, which the test kit can't measure (unless that's why it's changed!). They describe using a "low resolution" method, halve the water quantity and double the result. I did it the other way, twice the water (and x2 the indicator and conditioner) and halve the final result. Got just over 20ppm from it, 24ppm being imaginative reading the graduations of the 1ml syringe. You had better hope they have changed the kit, or, that the water authority is putting out seriously inaccurate measurements! 30.33ppm I believe they say.



The easy other option! It's the 18th September. Neil @ Phoenix Analytical (Phoenix Analytical) runs his next batch of water tests on 28th September. Can you get a bottle to him? Postage will be about £3. I'll pay Neil's fees! ... well, I did say I find your water "interestings", and I'll obviously want a copy of the results too.

 

[peebee]

The three bottle instructions. How does it differ?

 

[David Woods]

Attached the instructions for the new 2 bottle kit that came from Amazon - use by date of 2028.

It may be a lot simpler - I found a Youtube video showing how to use the "new" kit.

But following the comment of someone on the Strange Steve thread apparently you have to ignore the instruction that tells you to add 0.6ml in one go and add the drops gradually as you do with the KH/Alk kit.it gave me a reading of 85ppm which seemed OK - but I really am not sure. #

 

[peebee]

My guess is they've combined the "Ca-2" and "Ca-3" bottles (there is still the warning about the caustic contents, so they haven't got rid of the old "Ca-2" contents) and the initial 0.6 ml addition is to get the pH close enough for the rest of it to work accurately. Or, to put another way ... they might have sacrificed the accuracy at lower levels of calcium to make the kit less complicated for the "normal" user?

That is a very pessimistic conclusion because it's saying the kit is useless for testing levels under 100ppm of calcium!



Did you have any thoughts of taking me up on the offer to have Phoenix Analytical do the job? Need to get the sample off pretty quick (today for 2nd class?) if so. (Heck, I've got to get my water sample off too!).

 

[David Woods]

Hi PeeBee,

That is very generous of you but I am so busy I wouldn't have time to do anything this week - I could have got the wife to send it but she is travelling this week. Maybe the next time? thanks for the offer.

Dave

 

[peebee]

That is a very pessimistic conclusion because it's saying the kit is useless for testing levels under 100ppm of calcium!

100ppm? It's 300ppm! The area shaded out on the instructions!

Basically, it's saying the New Calcium kit is now entirely useless for testing most water used for brewing.

Major disaster! Unless you believe this character that @David Woods mentions (but I can't find the post) and ignore the minimum 0.6ml of reagent requirement. But Salifert are very insistent on it! Would you trust the results from ignoring it?

 

[David Woods]

I think Salifert have changed the Ca kit as mine just arrived today and only has one bottle of solution and the instructions make no mention of a Ca-3 bottle. The instructions are also a bit rubbish in that it tells you to add 0.6ml of Ca-2 in one go then add drop wise until colour changes pink to blue. I did this, but colour was already blue. I then realised 0.6ml equates to 300 ppm Ca whereas my water is around 30. I did it again and this time just added dropwise from the start - it changed after adding only 0.06ml sp bang on 30ppm.

This is the post I saw - there were a few others saying the same - maybe I should just send this kit back to them!

Dave

 

[peebee]

You might get away with using you own 2% NaOH solution?

Put 10 drops in the 2ml of test water (20 drops in 4ml if using my "high resolution" version) brief swirl (not shake - I'm guessing they say that because CO2 mustn't be incorporated), ignore the 0.6ml instruction (and its swirl!) and ... fingers-crossed ... ?

 

[peebee]

Hi PeeBee,

That is very generous of you but I am so busy I wouldn't have time to do anything this week - I could have got the wife to send it but she is travelling this week. Maybe the next time? thanks for the offer.

Dave

Okay! New offer! Sometime in the next two or three weeks, send me the water sample. I'll test it with my Salifert kits for a quick analysis, and then send it on to Phoenix Analytical (along with my own water sample) to get included with their next batch (late October?). So, I'll need 500ml in a clean PET bottle (run cold tap for 2-3 minutes before filling bottle, cap taped on, little/no air in bottle).

Not really "generous", you are feeding my own interests. Like that chap from the other conversation (who I don't talk to anymore!) said: I'm doing this for my own purposes too!

I'll PM you with an address if you want to go ahead?

 

[ARNWD]

Peebee,

What about adding a known amount of calcium to the sample and then testing?

 

[David Woods]

Hi yes PM me and I will send the sample - this is a bit out of my scope as I am very new, not even done my first all grain yet! I was just trying to get in the ball park - if you could detail how to do this? I will give it a go. I only have tap water here.

Dave

 

[peebee]

Remember our previous forum discussion. No need to wait getting all tied in knots with all this water splashing about (I'm in a right tangle, I'm not sure it helps me?). Your local brewery (Battle) don't bother messing with it, why not follow their example? At least for a brew or two.

My interest in your water is it appears to be one of those rare examples of natural sodium-based alkalinity, or something like that - plenty of alkalinity, not much "hardness". Bit like some American waters that have been "processed" through ion exchanges to reduce hardness (some places in America have very high water "hardness"). Don't know yet. But it might be really messing up the computer-generated reports from your water company (they are hopelessly unbalanced).

Don't worry if thinking "a bit out of your scope", I've only been digging this deep for a few months! As long as once-upon-a-time you've been to school and you enjoy puzzles, you soon pick it up! There isn't much to know, or more accurately, there isn't much to know with regards to beer homebrewing.