Solera sour method help please

[xozzx]

Hi, Im looking for some advice from any sour beer brewers. Ive never made a sour but planning to start a solera sour soon, to make it easy I plan to copy David Heaths video series on solera sour, starting with making the Golden Sour. Im struggling to find any stockist of the wildbrew sour pitches or the Brett he uses. I replied on another thread but was a bit off topic so hoped if I started a new thread I might get some help (reassurance) on my planned method.

Someone suggested using Swansons as an alternative to the wildbrew sour pitches.

I copied the below from my previous post, just wanting someone with some experience in sour brewing to make sure I am going in the right direction -

Hope someone here can reassure me of my intended process. Ill be following David Heaths Golden Sour recipe and process as below. Ill be making 50L in a B80

- Mash and sparge as normal.
- boil 5 mins
- cool to 35C in the B80
- adjust pH to 4.5 with lactic acid
- add 10 capsules of Swansons (for 50L)
- Cover with clingfilm
- after 2 days check pH and if ~3.5 then bring to boil for 60 mins and add hop additions
- transfer to fermentor, add 2 packs kviek
- after about 3 days transfer to foeder and add 2 packs OMEGA Yeast – OYL-218 – All the Bretts
- leave for 6-12 months
- Keg half and top up foeder with more beer.

Having never made a sour just wanting to check this looks right. Although the Brett is a yeast I guess it is only for the secondary and I want to ferment out with the kviek first?

As I will have boiled the soured beer in the B80 I assume I wont have issues with contaminating future brews at any point before the foeder? I plan to use dedicated transfer hose, kegs and tap for the sour beer removed from the foeder.
Appreciate any advice on my process

 

[Sadfield]

It would work to get the Solera started. Is pre-souring with lactobacillus Dave Heaths method? Does he state that subsequent additions need pre-souring with lactobacillus, too. Because the 60 minute boil with hops will kill any souring bacteria. It's certainly one way of doing it, that would work and give you sour beer quicker. However it would require topping up with equally sour beer.

Ordinarily, with Lambic inspired Solera sours the sourness comes from Pediococcus bacteria in the storage vessel, to which clean, none soured beer or wort is added for ageing. Which makes for a simpler process to maintain the Solera, but the sourness increases as it ages.

Brett doesn't sour although it does add a slight tartness. It mainly provides a fruity and phenolic flavours by turning unpleasant off flavours into nice ones.

 

[xozzx]

Ordinarily, with Lambic inspired Solera sours the sourness comes from Pediococcus bacteria in the storage vessel, to which clean, none soured beer or wort is added for ageing. Which makes for a simpler process to maintain the Solera, but the sourness increases as it ages.

Thanks, so I could just ferment the beer with kviek for a few days (not too worried about completely finishing) then transfer to the foeder and add bacteria? Is this the Brett bacteria I need to add? Would the one I lined be suitable? Do I need to adjust pH at all? Ive read a bit about the different types of bacteria but decided just that Ill dive in and make one and see how it goes as I am finding it all slightly confusing! Just want to get the process right first.

 

[Sadfield]

Is this the Brett bacteria I need to add?

Yes adding the Brett is correct, although it is a yeast not a bacteria.

This covers the basics under Meet The Bugs.

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/blog/mixed-fermentation/#1638870519877-6c3f3cf7-0c94
I recommend giving this book and the authors blog The Mad Fermentationist - Homebrewing Blog a visit for pretty much all you need to know on mixed fermentation, and he has his own Solera project.

https://www.brewerspublications.com...innovative-techniques-for-mixed-fermentations
Having a quick skip through Dave Heaths videos, he does appear to inoculate his foeder at some point with Lactic acid bacteria, so I presume he's using the kettle souring technique to get the ball rolling.

 

[xozzx]

Thanks @Sadfield , these guides look like just what Im needing

 

[LeeH]

Like you I could not find any sour pitch, plus the price had risen considerably.

I use Swansons with a cherry sour and there was no perceivable difference from that and the raspberry batch before hand. It soured down to 3.4 in 24h, the sour pitch takes 48 to get to 3 which is my normal target.

Forget the cling film too, I just blow a bit of CO2 in the kettle and tape the seam around the lid with electricians tape.

You can also skip the pH reduction and the boil after the mash. Just cool and throw in the capsules.

I also take it daily now so always have it in stock.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Like you I could not find any sour pitch, plus the price had risen considerably.

I use Swansons with a cherry sour and there was no perceivable difference from that and the raspberry batch before hand. It soured down to 3.4 in 24h, the sour pitch takes 48 to get to 3 which is my normal target.

Forget the cling film too, I just blow a bit of CO2 in the kettle and tape the seam around the lid with electricians tape.

You can also skip the pH reduction and the boil after the mash. Just cool and throw in the capsules.

I also take it daily now so always have it in stock.

Cling film helps avoid the horrible off aromas you can get during the souring phase if you're not using a pure lactobacillus culture. I believe they're caused by other (non lactobacillus) bacteria that need some oxygen, and tend to appear when you're souring using a non pure source like grain and some probiotics.

Which is why I'd recommend a quick 5 minute boil post mash, to kill off all the bacteria picked up from the grain in the mash.

 

[LeeH]

Cling film helps avoid the horrible off aromas you can get during the souring phase if you're not using a pure lactobacillus culture. I believe they're caused by other (non lactobacillus) bacteria that need some oxygen, and tend to appear when you're souring using a non pure source like grain and some probiotics.

Which is why I'd recommend a quick 5 minute boil post mash, to kill off all the bacteria picked up from the grain in the mash.

Both reason are well documented, but from experience unnecessary.

Your mileage may vary obviously.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Both reason are well documented, but from experience unnecessary.

Your mileage may vary obviously.

True, a good boil post souring normally gets rid of any off aromas.