Water treatment query - undesirable flavours

[cnelsonplumber]

Hi all

The new brewery is finished Hurrah so now it's time to get down to the serious business of learning to produce consistently good beers :)

Thus far this has not been the case :wha:

So starting from the beginning I have a concern over the way I am treating the water as it falls into the hard category 210 ppm CaCO3.

I have input all the relevant data into the calculator which I have to say is brilliant :clap: and this gives me a dose of 81.9ml AMS for 46 Ltrs liquor or 1.78 ml/Ltr.

The fact sheet that came with the AMS states that 1.84 ml/Ltr will give a reduction in alkalinity of 337 at this dose rate and that is the upper most limit of dosing shown on the fact sheet scale. This suggests that it would be the dose rate for the hardest water in the land and I may be over dosing on AMS.

I can not find an alkalinity value for Springsmire water to compare with the fact sheet guide although the mean PH is 6.95.

I would be grateful for some guidance from experienced brewers as to whether or not this may be where the problem lies. :drink:

Thanks

Chris

 

[Darcey]

I bought the AMS from the Malt Miller. I havnt had chance to really look at it yet but it sounds like the one I have. I thought I had my head around the numbers (from the calculator) but it struok me as abit off?). The calculator calls it CRS is AMS different?

 

[cnelsonplumber]

A M S is the trade name for CRS which statnds for carbonate reducing solutlion Think I am going to have to buy tapatalk first as phon is driving me nuts

 

[Darcey]

A M S is the trade name for CRS

Understood :thumb:

 

[Good Ed]

The best and simplest way is to get a Salifert Kit to test for alkalinity, water reports are all well and good but they don't test what is coming out of your tap when you brew. Also have a look this http://www.brupaks.com/water treatment.htm which is a good guide to water treatment. All I do is adjust the alkalinty with CRS and then add gypsum CaSO4 or Calcium Chloride CaCl as a calcium addition depending on the style.

 

[Darcey]

I have a Alk test and shall be using it tomorrow! Thanks for the link!

 

[Mark1964]

your water report should tell you what you need to know. For brewing you only need to know calcium magnesium sodium chloride and sulphate levels. When you have all this info and the alkilinity levels put all the info in to the forums water treatment calculator. You will need a testing kit for alkilinity as mentioned previously.

5.49 meq/L x 50 =274.5 ppm reduce to 25 ppm (25 ppm is the figure for the type of beer Pale/Stout/Bitter) 25 ppm is a Bitter! so 274.5 -25ppm = 249.5...So you have to divide 249.5 by 183 = 1.36 CRS per litre of water (183 mg/L ) is the amount of CRS to remove calcium) . So then multiply 1.36 by the amount of water you are using for mash and sparge together eg 40 Litres..So 1.36 x 40L = 54.5 CRS This is an example using our figures

 

[Darcey]

Just did a test - 19ppm... guess I dont need my AMS after all!

:shock:

 

[cnelsonplumber]

5.49 meq/L x 50 =274.5 ppm reduce to 25 ppm (25 ppm is the figure for the type of beer Pale/Stout/Bitter) 25 ppm is a Bitter! so 274.5 -25ppm = 249.5...So you have to divide 249.5 by 183 = 1.36 CRS per litre of water (183 mg/L ) is the amount of CRS to remove calcium) . So then multiply 1.36 by the amount of water you are using for mash and sparge together eg 40 Litres..So 1.36 x 40L = 54.5 CRS This is an example using our figures

Thanks for the reply and also BE for the link. :thumb:

I carried out a Sali Test this morning and got readings of .67 at 5 C and .69 at 20 C. from the chart supplied with the kit this gives a KH value of 4.8 in dKH and alkalinity as 1.7 meq/L.
Is either of these readings the PH? as my local water report gives a mean value of 6.95.

Can you tell me where the calculation 5.49 meq/L X 50 comes from please so I can get a better handle on this. 5.49 is almost off the top of the chart supplied with my Sali Kit :wha:

 

[paulfg]

if you get meq=1.7 to find your CaCO3 ppm you multiply by 50
1.7x50=85 ppm
this is a lot different to 210 you quoted in your first post as discussed before to brew a bitter you need to lower that figure to 25 85-25=60 you need to treat you water to remove 60 ppm
from the brupak site you need 0.35 millilitres per litre
if you have been using 1.78 ml/l this is nearly 5 times the required amount so it my account for problems
I am new to all this but I am sure someone more expert will be along soon
I dont know if this is the same link but http://www.brupaks.com/brewing-aids.htm is good

 

[cnelsonplumber]

Thanks Paul :

Not sure where the discrepancy lies here as Springsmire Water Hardness is listed as 210.2 ppm CaCO3. The Sali test is well in date and I'm pretty sure I carried out the test correctly :wha:

 

[fisherman]

If your alk is 85ppm to reduce it to 25ppm for bitters and pale ales add CRS at the rate of 0.33 ml per litre, and to add calcium and minerals I use DLS ( dry liquor salts ) you need 0.95 grms per litre. So for 23 litres of beer 23X 0.95=21 grms half in the dry grist and half in the boil.
Good brewing

 

[fisherman]

Try testing your water with the kit and jot down the alkalinity then treat your water with CRS , then test it again to see if it reads the desired alkalinity you have aimed for. I always test my water before and after just to be sure.

 

[Good Ed]

When testing your water, do it first to get how much CRS to add but only add 3/4 of the amount, stir and leave for 10mins, stir and then do a 2nd test; this avoids overdosing. CRS should be added to all the liquor you are using. Also don't forget 1/2 campden tab for 23L.

When you have the CaCO3 value, multiply this by 0.40 to give a calcium value in ppm. I then adjust calcium with CaSO4 (for dry hoppy beer) or CaCl (for a rounded malty beer) or a mixture of both and add 2/3 to the mash and 1/3 to the boil. When calculating the calcium addition, base it on your pre boil volume. When boosting calcium 100mg per litre will be contributed by adding 430mg per litre of CaSO4 or 370mg per litre of CaCl.

So for you, Mr Plumber, with a reading of an alkalinity value of 85; 85 x 0.40 = 34ppm of calcium. So to brew a pale ale you want say 180ppm and you have a pre boil volume of 32L and are going to use CaSO4; 180 - 34 = 146ppm of calcium to be added, 146/100 x 0.43g x 32L = 20g of CaSO4 to be added. Of course you can also use Brewpaks/Murphys brewing salts.

 

[cnelsonplumber]

Sorry if I appear a bit thick here but I am getting confused: :wha:

So for you, Mr Plumber, with a reading of an alkalinity value of 85; 85 x 0.40 = 34ppm of calcium. So to brew a pale ale you want say 180ppm and you have a pre boil volume of 32L and are going to use CaSO4; 180 - 34 = 146ppm of calcium to be added, 146/100 x 0.43g x 32L = 20g of CaSO4 to be added. Of course you can also use Brewpaks/Murphys brewing salts.

I think I will print a copy of Brewpacks guide for reference.

I will go with the above for my brew this weekend :clap: