matt76's Brewdays
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Positive - yes it was measured with the Tilt but I double checked with my hydrometer to be certain.
I left it a few more days to be sure, then I added a dry hop at 20degC and it still didn't change over 3 days before I cold crashed and fined.
I've had dark beers start at much lower gravity, like 1.045 and still finish in the 1.018-1.023 range so it's really not that surprising.
Also, 1.023 really isn't a high FG for a beer that started at 1.079 - that's still something like 70% apparent attenuation (mashed nominally at 67degC but on my system the actual temperature range is anyone's guess).
AG#68 Mk.II Hurricane Porter
Rebrew of my AG#55 Porter - of which I was surprised to notice the other day I've only got a couple of bottles left, and that I brewed it way back in Sept 2020.
But as is usual with my rebrews I've changed pretty much everything!
- This is my first brew using my new recirc pump I've rigged up - I won't go into details here but I'll add more details later on to the thread here. [EDIT - post from today is here]
- @pilgrimhudd tried the previous version - he liked it but reckoned it could do with more roast. With this in mind I've added 50% more brown malt, chocolate rye malt and crystal malt
- For the crystal malt I split it - normally I go with 250g dark crystal 80L, but this time I've done 125g each dark crystal 80L, extra dark crystal 160L and Special-B.
- I'm not sure if Special-B is technically a crystal malt - it tasted quite roasty to me but I think it'll make a tasty beer.
- Last time I used CML Beoir but this time I've gone for a split batch with MJ M36 and WY1318 - I think both will add some interesting fruitiness, will be interested to see howw they compare.
- I normally rip and dump dry yeast but this time I prepared vitality starters for both strains.
16L tap water, 1.25ml lactic acid 80%, 2g CaCl, half a Campden tablet.
Calcium 169, Chloride 102, Sulfate 40, Alkalinity 292
2000g Golden Promise Malt
375g Brown Malt
50g Chocolate Malt (remains of an old bag...)
325g Chocolate Rye Malt (...and avoiding opening a new bag)
125g Dark Crystal Malt 80L
125g Extra Dark Crystal Malt 160L
125g Special B Malt
3.125kg Total
Full-volume no-sparge mash, 70mins
Nominally @ 67degC - using new recirc pump setup, it seemed to vary between 64-68degC
Boil 30mins:
25g Northdown 7.5% AAU 30mins
15g Northdown 7.5% AAU 10mins
1/2 Protofloc tablet 5mins
10L in the FV @ OG 1.051 plus 3L crud in bottles which will yield a bit more.
1.051 is a couple of points higher than I expected and according to BF it looks like the efficiency was higher than normal. Best guess this is a consequence of the mash recirc system??? Anyway I liquored back in the FV with 1L of cooled boiled tap water bringing it down to 1.046.
I would be very interested to try it full strength (actually stronger still with only 15 rather than 16L water) but I just don't want to make that much strong beer. So I'll set a challenge to @pilgrimhudd to take that one on as stronger beers seem to be more his cup of tea
Anyway I split the wort roughly in half between two FV's - I'm really interested to see how these two strain compare:
- The first in the brew fridge along with the Tilt and a pitch of MJ M36.
- The second in a cool spot with a pitch of WY1318 slurry.
36 SRM (according to BF at least - held up to the light it looks more brown)
29 IBUs Rager
OG 1.046
I really don't know where this will end up - my dark beers in particular lately have had really unpredictable FG's, or at least a lot higher than predicted. It'll be interesting to see if the mash recirc system affects the FG - anyway, I'm hoping as usual for somewhere in the 4.0-4.5% ABV range. Wort tastes nice - I think it's definitely a bit more roasty and less sweet than previous versions.
Rebrew of my AG#55 Porter - of which I was surprised to notice the other day I've only got a couple of bottles left, and that I brewed it way back in Sept 2020.
But as is usual with my rebrews I've changed pretty much everything!
- This is my first brew using my new recirc pump I've rigged up - I won't go into details here but I'll add more details later on to the thread here. [EDIT - post from today is here]
- @pilgrimhudd tried the previous version - he liked it but reckoned it could do with more roast. With this in mind I've added 50% more brown malt, chocolate rye malt and crystal malt
- For the crystal malt I split it - normally I go with 250g dark crystal 80L, but this time I've done 125g each dark crystal 80L, extra dark crystal 160L and Special-B.
- I'm not sure if Special-B is technically a crystal malt - it tasted quite roasty to me but I think it'll make a tasty beer.
- Last time I used CML Beoir but this time I've gone for a split batch with MJ M36 and WY1318 - I think both will add some interesting fruitiness, will be interested to see howw they compare.
- I normally rip and dump dry yeast but this time I prepared vitality starters for both strains.
16L tap water, 1.25ml lactic acid 80%, 2g CaCl, half a Campden tablet.
Calcium 169, Chloride 102, Sulfate 40, Alkalinity 292
2000g Golden Promise Malt
375g Brown Malt
50g Chocolate Malt (remains of an old bag...)
325g Chocolate Rye Malt (...and avoiding opening a new bag)
125g Dark Crystal Malt 80L
125g Extra Dark Crystal Malt 160L
125g Special B Malt
3.125kg Total
Full-volume no-sparge mash, 70mins
Nominally @ 67degC - using new recirc pump setup, it seemed to vary between 64-68degC
Boil 30mins:
25g Northdown 7.5% AAU 30mins
15g Northdown 7.5% AAU 10mins
1/2 Protofloc tablet 5mins
10L in the FV @ OG 1.051 plus 3L crud in bottles which will yield a bit more.
1.051 is a couple of points higher than I expected and according to BF it looks like the efficiency was higher than normal. Best guess this is a consequence of the mash recirc system??? Anyway I liquored back in the FV with 1L of cooled boiled tap water bringing it down to 1.046.
I would be very interested to try it full strength (actually stronger still with only 15 rather than 16L water) but I just don't want to make that much strong beer. So I'll set a challenge to @pilgrimhudd to take that one on as stronger beers seem to be more his cup of tea
Anyway I split the wort roughly in half between two FV's - I'm really interested to see how these two strain compare:
- The first in the brew fridge along with the Tilt and a pitch of MJ M36.
- The second in a cool spot with a pitch of WY1318 slurry.
36 SRM (according to BF at least - held up to the light it looks more brown)
29 IBUs Rager
OG 1.046
I really don't know where this will end up - my dark beers in particular lately have had really unpredictable FG's, or at least a lot higher than predicted. It'll be interesting to see if the mash recirc system affects the FG - anyway, I'm hoping as usual for somewhere in the 4.0-4.5% ABV range. Wort tastes nice - I think it's definitely a bit more roasty and less sweet than previous versions.
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Update: AG#68 Mk.II Hurricane Porter
Blast. I had a feeling this might happen.
I've got 7L in each FV:
- The first with M36 has gone in little more that 2 days from 1.045 to 1.020 and then stopped (despite increasing temperature from 20 to 22degC). That gives about 55% attenuation and 3.3% ABV.
- The second with WY1318, well I won't know until I measure it but I don't expect anything radically different.
No question in my mind, these are done rather than stuck. Not totally unexpected as I've seen this high FG in all my dark beers lately (finishing in high teens or low twenties).
Neither yeast strain has a reputation as a monster attenuator. Also my grist contains 36% unfermentables - dark roasted malts, brown malt and dark crystal malts.
I had hoped the recirc pump might help address this by ensuring more even mash temps, and hence a more predictable FG. On the first point I think yes, but not on the second it would seem.
I think the issue is more like the calculator in BF is total bobbins when it comes to how fermentable (or not!) these dark malts are.
So what would I change next time? Well, I've a few ideas:
- The simple one is to add more fermentables! Increase the base malt from 2kg (out of 3.125kg) to 2.5kg (or add in 500g Munich, say).
- I'd also reduce the total starting liquor volume from 17L to 15L.
- It's only in the last 6 months or so this problem has become quite so pronounced. I think in the past I was mashing a bit lower than I thought - my trusty old thermometer turned out not to be quite so trusty afterall! Ordinarily I'd try not to mess too much with my process, but I'm curious to see what effect if any a step mash might have, e.g. 40/50/60/70degC.
In the meantime... My general aim these days is to make sessionable beers but more like 4.3% ABV. Fermentation has only just finished and I've not sampled either yet (might take some hydrometer samples today). But while 3.3% ABV is rather lower than planned I'm confident nonetheless that I'll still end up with some tasty beer. Plus I'm very interested to see how the two yeast strains compare 
Blast. I had a feeling this might happen.
I've got 7L in each FV:
- The first with M36 has gone in little more that 2 days from 1.045 to 1.020 and then stopped (despite increasing temperature from 20 to 22degC). That gives about 55% attenuation and 3.3% ABV.
- The second with WY1318, well I won't know until I measure it but I don't expect anything radically different.
No question in my mind, these are done rather than stuck. Not totally unexpected as I've seen this high FG in all my dark beers lately (finishing in high teens or low twenties).
Neither yeast strain has a reputation as a monster attenuator. Also my grist contains 36% unfermentables - dark roasted malts, brown malt and dark crystal malts.
I had hoped the recirc pump might help address this by ensuring more even mash temps, and hence a more predictable FG. On the first point I think yes, but not on the second it would seem.
I think the issue is more like the calculator in BF is total bobbins when it comes to how fermentable (or not!) these dark malts are.
So what would I change next time? Well, I've a few ideas:
- The simple one is to add more fermentables! Increase the base malt from 2kg (out of 3.125kg) to 2.5kg (or add in 500g Munich, say).
- I'd also reduce the total starting liquor volume from 17L to 15L.
- It's only in the last 6 months or so this problem has become quite so pronounced. I think in the past I was mashing a bit lower than I thought - my trusty old thermometer turned out not to be quite so trusty afterall! Ordinarily I'd try not to mess too much with my process, but I'm curious to see what effect if any a step mash might have, e.g. 40/50/60/70degC.
In the meantime... My general aim these days is to make sessionable beers but more like 4.3% ABV. Fermentation has only just finished and I've not sampled either yet (might take some hydrometer samples today). But while 3.3% ABV is rather lower than planned I'm confident nonetheless that I'll still end up with some tasty beer. Plus I'm very interested to see how the two yeast strains compare
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As you say it'll be really interesting to see how the two yeasts compare.
I don't think it's stuck either.....I wonder if the mash temp was slightly different, and that with the slightly less fermentables and higher roast malt % just made the OG slightly higher than you expected?
If it's anything like the last one it'll be very nice indeed.
I don't think it's stuck either.....I wonder if the mash temp was slightly different, and that with the slightly less fermentables and higher roast malt % just made the OG slightly higher than you expected?
If it's anything like the last one it'll be very nice indeed.
Talking of the Tropical Stout @matt76 , I had one on Thursday night, it was pretty special. Thanks for the recipe suggestion! I commented on it on the What are you drinking tonight 2021? | Page 147 | The HomeBrew Forum , very roasty which is very much to my taste but the hops come through and give it a real depth of flavour. Very young BUT I think probably best drunk young otherwise the hops will fade and it'll just be a roasty stout.
Better than my NEIPA........ ☹
It'll be interesting to see where the WY1318 finishes. Stuck at 1.020 is such a widespread complaint across all styles of beer that always tends to result in blame being apportioned to the yeast, it's handling or the quantity used. This'll be the first time I've seen the same batch fermented with two yeasts where (at least) one has stuck at 1.020.
For sure - there's no question all these dark malts bump up the OG. Regardless of style I'm pretty much always hitting my OG +/- a point or two.
But what the BF calculator at least seems to get wrong is that these dark malts don't seem to add any fermentables...
Roast barley, chocolate malt, Carafa 1/2/3 etc I'm certain don't...
I'm not certain about brown malt but I'd doubt much if anything...
There's some good evidence that lighter crystal malts are actually more fermentable then received wisdom suggests. But I suspect the dark crystals I'm using don't add much.
They do all of course so glorious things in terms of colour and flavour, just bit fermentables.
And yeah, I'm totally confident it'll taste good it just grates(for me at least) to be so far away from what I was aiming for!
Thanks.
Whereas I normally rip and dump dry yeast, in this case I know I've done absolutely everything to make sure both strains were 100% match for and ready for action.
I rehydrated the dry yeast and both strains went in a vitality starter the day before pitching.
So I can't believe the yeast is the issue. I'm totally convinced it's a lot more to do with the 36% dark malts I used!
Spurred on by your comments @foxbat I've decided to do a forced ferment of this porter;
I always have a bit of wort left over so I took 200ml in a non-airtight container, warmed it to 30degC and added 0.5g M36 from the same packet as the main brew, then stuck it in the airing cupboard.
I heard about it on a recent Basic Brewing Radio podcast interview with Casey from Imperial Yeast - I believe the idea is this will ferment out quickly and tell me the minimum OG I can possibly expect.
It's starting from 1.051, same as the main batch before I liquored back. I would be very surprised if it ends up significantly lower than 1.020 but we'll see. I'm just interested to see the comparison and figured I'd have a bash rather then pouring the surplus wort straight down the drain.
Only one TiltI'm betting on the Wyeast to get down below 1.020. Didn't you buy two tilts?
And it's in with the M36.WY1318 down to 1.019 - checked it earlier
Everything about it screams done though so not expecting it to go any lower.Have you still got that bottle of 1845 around? If so I'd definitely recommend capturing the yeast and brewing with it. I started my Never Felt Bitter keg last weekend and it's very good. I get a full richness with a hint of a minerally edge to it. I will use it again for English bitters.
I do and thanks for the tip
It's still in the fridge waiting to be drunk but definitely planning to harvest the yeast whenever I drink it.I'm not totally sure my palette is so refined as to be able to describe minerality
but I'm definitely interested to see what this strain brings to the party. I'm curious whether Fullers use the same strain in their London Porter - I'd be interested to try it in mine in any case.
Bottling: AG#68 Mk.II Hurricane Porter
Each FV yielded 12 x 500ml bottles.
These were primed with 20g brown sugar per FV which should give the same modest carbonation as last time.
Both strains (M36 & WY1318) went from 1.046 to 1.019 giving 3.5% ABV and 58% apparent attenuation.
ABV = 3.5%
SRM = 36
IBU = 29 (Rager)
Colour = Black / very dark brown
Aroma = Not much; malty
Taste = Nice. More roast I think than previous version (AG#55), though that's not too say it comes across as out and out roasty.
I have a slight concern about a slight off taste with the WY1318 batch, maybe stressed yeast. Quite subtle and I'll reserve judgement until it's ready to drink.
Apart from that I'm not detecting a huge difference in flavour between the two strains. I'm particularly looking forward to trying the M36 version which seems particularly promising!
Each FV yielded 12 x 500ml bottles.
These were primed with 20g brown sugar per FV which should give the same modest carbonation as last time.
Both strains (M36 & WY1318) went from 1.046 to 1.019 giving 3.5% ABV and 58% apparent attenuation.
ABV = 3.5%
SRM = 36
IBU = 29 (Rager)
Colour = Black / very dark brown
Aroma = Not much; malty
Taste = Nice. More roast I think than previous version (AG#55), though that's not too say it comes across as out and out roasty.
I have a slight concern about a slight off taste with the WY1318 batch, maybe stressed yeast. Quite subtle and I'll reserve judgement until it's ready to drink.
Apart from that I'm not detecting a huge difference in flavour between the two strains. I'm particularly looking forward to trying the M36 version which seems particularly promising!
AG#69 Podium IPA
This is my fifth attempt brewing what I consider my signature beer. The last couple of attempts have been decidedly lacklustre so I'm hoping I can do it justice this time.
I'm going back to basics this time, closer to the way I made it the first and best time, way back in AG#5.
Hopping is exactly the same other than slight variations in %AAU.
My process these days is very different of course. In the grist I'm using Golden Promise rather than Maris Otter and I no longer bother with flaked barley. All of which brings my OG down from about 1.055 to 1.045, which suits my current penchant for a more sessionable beer.
Yeast is BRY-97 rather than WY1056 which isn't light years away. I was tempted to do a split batch with MJ M36, but maybe next time.
Big question mark is water - nowadays I use tap water treated with campden, and in this beer CRS and gypsum. If I find I'm still falling short I may have to try Ashbeck again as I did in the original. My mega-hard water seems bang on for dark beers but I'm starting to wonder about hoppy beers.
One thing I noticed using the mash recirc pump again is it doesn't necessarily seem to yield clearer wort (well it did, until I lifted the grain basket, then it just went cloudy again!), but I swear I'm getting more clear wort from the kettle into the FV, and ending up with less crud. It'll be interesting to see if this trend continues over the next few brews.
15L tap water
20ml CRS, 2g gypsum, ½ campden tablet
Calcium 166, Chloride 133, Sulfate 238, Alkalinity 36
2500g Golden Promise
TOTAL 2.5kg
60min full-volume no-sparge mash nominally at 67degC. Mash pH = 5.2.
30min boil:
10g Simcoe 12% AAU 20mins
10g Amarillo 8.3% AAU 10mins
10g Citra 13.5% AAU 10mins
10g Simcoe 12% AAU 10mins
10g Amarillo 8.3% AAU 5mins
10g Citra 13.5% AAU 5mins
½ protofloc tablet 5mins
Dry hop at end of primary fermentation with 40g Amarillo and 20g Citra.
10.1L clear wort in the FV plus 2L crud which should net another litre once it's settled out.
Pitched 5g BRY-97 rehydrated in 50ml water @ 30degC.
In the brew fridge set to 20degC.
OG = 1.045 (expecting about 4.5%ABV)
SRM = 4.5 (pale)
IBU = 54 (Tinseth)
This is my fifth attempt brewing what I consider my signature beer. The last couple of attempts have been decidedly lacklustre so I'm hoping I can do it justice this time.
I'm going back to basics this time, closer to the way I made it the first and best time, way back in AG#5.
Hopping is exactly the same other than slight variations in %AAU.
My process these days is very different of course. In the grist I'm using Golden Promise rather than Maris Otter and I no longer bother with flaked barley. All of which brings my OG down from about 1.055 to 1.045, which suits my current penchant for a more sessionable beer.
Yeast is BRY-97 rather than WY1056 which isn't light years away. I was tempted to do a split batch with MJ M36, but maybe next time.
Big question mark is water - nowadays I use tap water treated with campden, and in this beer CRS and gypsum. If I find I'm still falling short I may have to try Ashbeck again as I did in the original. My mega-hard water seems bang on for dark beers but I'm starting to wonder about hoppy beers.
One thing I noticed using the mash recirc pump again is it doesn't necessarily seem to yield clearer wort (well it did, until I lifted the grain basket, then it just went cloudy again!), but I swear I'm getting more clear wort from the kettle into the FV, and ending up with less crud. It'll be interesting to see if this trend continues over the next few brews.
15L tap water
20ml CRS, 2g gypsum, ½ campden tablet
Calcium 166, Chloride 133, Sulfate 238, Alkalinity 36
2500g Golden Promise
TOTAL 2.5kg
60min full-volume no-sparge mash nominally at 67degC. Mash pH = 5.2.
30min boil:
10g Simcoe 12% AAU 20mins
10g Amarillo 8.3% AAU 10mins
10g Citra 13.5% AAU 10mins
10g Simcoe 12% AAU 10mins
10g Amarillo 8.3% AAU 5mins
10g Citra 13.5% AAU 5mins
½ protofloc tablet 5mins
Dry hop at end of primary fermentation with 40g Amarillo and 20g Citra.
10.1L clear wort in the FV plus 2L crud which should net another litre once it's settled out.
Pitched 5g BRY-97 rehydrated in 50ml water @ 30degC.
In the brew fridge set to 20degC.
OG = 1.045 (expecting about 4.5%ABV)
SRM = 4.5 (pale)
IBU = 54 (Tinseth)
I neglected to mention the results, but the forced ferment I did with M36 on my AG#68 Hurricane Porter wort went from 1.051 to 1.021, 58% apparent attenuation.
By comparison, the actual beer I made went from 1.046 (I liquored back in the FV) to 1.019, same 58% apparent attenuation.
Not that I ever had any doubts but this suggests the yeast is doing the best it can, it's just a low attenuator combined with a shed load of unfermentables.
Plan for next time is to either extend the boil to 60 mins to concentrate the wort a bit more and/or chuck in 250-500g extra base malt or Munich
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