How to calculate for Chaptalization ? and other stuff

[andrew_ysk]

Scenario:
Crashed 7.5 kg of wine grape from garden
I did a measurement grape juice :
brix 16.7%
SG 1.070
I am roughly targeting 14.4%ABV (plan to store for longer time), because i read grape wine that can be store without spoil have to be around 14%ABV, anything lower will spoil.
I planned to have at least 1.020 as final gravity, because i don't want dry wine. **just my planned goal, don't know yet how to achieve it, but let's assume it is achievable by campden tablet**

According calculator of this website:
with the last grape juice that i poured in i got only 6.56% ABV.

Question1:
How much sugar to add in to achieve 14.4% ABV ?

Question2:
**one side question: What is "plato P" ?
According to a webpage "Plato Gravity Scale is a measurement of the concentration of dissolved solids in a brewery wort. Degrees Plato (°P) is used to quantify the concentration of extract (mainly sugars derived from malt but also including other soluble material in wort) as a percentage by weight. A 10°P wort will contain 10 g of extract per 100 g of wort."
This defination sounds EXACTLY like refractormeter brix..
So, is it same a Brix measurement ?

Question3:
How to use this website calculator ? How come it tells me to add in MINUS 1.98kg sugar ? and What is its target ABV (there is no field for me to enter my desired ABV) ?
URL:
https://winemakerssoftware.com/Calculations#chaptalizationpop

 

[The Baron]

I think you are putting your estimated FG in the goal what the calc does is tell you how much sugar to add to get to the SG you want so put in say 1.095 as a example in the goal section and it will tell you how much sugar to add.
By the way your estimate of 1.020 is sickly sweet ( and may cause problems with refermentation in the bottle) it needs to be around 1.000 but I am no expert on wine hopefully John will step in he has more knowledge on the wines

 

[andrew_ysk]

IBy the way your estimate of 1.020 is sickly sweet

No, FG of 1.020 is only Brix 5.1% only.. (5.1% brix is not sweet at all) you have mistaken for 1.200 i think.

 

[andrew_ysk]

I think you are putting your estimated FG in the goal what the calc does is tell you how much sugar to add to get to the SG you want so put in say 1.095 as a example in the goal section and it will tell you how much sugar to add.

What does "current SG " means ? I think it should means the SG that i measured now, which could be "Starting Gravity".
"Goal SG" for me sounds like My "target / intended SG", which SG always goes lower after fermenting , because less sugar, hence less dense..
Hence "current SG/ starting gravity" is always higher than "Final gravity/ Goal gravity".. I can't understand why it is wrong..

 

[RichardM]

This calculator tells you how much sugar to add to get the sg that you want. Play with the ABV calculator to work out what sg you need to start with. Then come back to this calculator to work out how much sugar to add to get to the desired sg from 1.070

 

[andrew_ysk]

This calculator tells you how much sugar to add to get the sg that you want. Play with the ABV calculator to work out what sg you need to start with. Then come back to this calculator to work out how much sugar to add to get to the desired sg from 1.070

I see, i got it now.. I have to find the SG to the desired ABV and put it in "Goal SG" , right ? I think it should write "Goal ABV SG" instead of "goal SG"...
How about "current SG " ? what is it ? is it just "current/ starting SG " of the grape mast ?

 

[The Baron]

You goal gravity is what it needs to be to get your 14% so it will be higher than your original SG of 1.070, as Richard says you need to play with the ABV calculator to see where you need to start.
Bear in mind your FG will alter the ABV and as I have said 1.020 is way too high for a wine to finish at and if you use that your goal SG will be very high and not realistic

 

[The Baron]

to help you a dry wine is 0.990 to 1.005 for sweet so your 1.020 is way higher than the 1.005

 

[johncrobinson]

You are making wine,These calculators you refer to are for beer brewing.To work out mash efficency ect,ect.

Sugar to acohol tables are widely availible on the internet,And also on your hydrometer.
Dont confuse the two.

By the sound of it your wine "must" needs a boost.
To get to a decent alcohol content when it can preserve your wine.You need at LEAST 10%abv.
Some German wines I know are lower,But they are drunk young and fresh.
I make mine circa 15%, they would last for years,(If i did not drink them )

 

[andrew_ysk]

You are making wine,These calculators you refer to are for beer brewing.To work out mash efficency ect,ect.

Sugar to acohol tables are widely availible on the internet,And also on your hydrometer.
Dont confuse the two.

By the sound of it your wine "must" needs a boost.
To get to a decent alcohol content when it can preserve your wine.You need at LEAST 10%abv.
Some German wines I know are lower,But they are drunk young and fresh.
I make mine circa 15%, they would last for years,(If i did not drink them )

ABV for beer calculator is not same as wine calculator ?
Chaptalisation for beer calculator is not same as wine calculator ?

 

[The Baron]

told you the wine expert would answer
Listen to John he has a lot of experience with wines, I know it seems a little daunting but it will sink in and you will be a better wine/beer maker for kt

 

[johncrobinson]

No a beer and wine calculator is not the same
Beer has to produce sugars from starches,Not all of those sugars are fermentable.

The ones in grapes are,100%
As is any" sucrose" (table sugar) that may be added
It has to be split by the yeast but wine yeast can do this.
With the greatest of ease.

 

[RichardM]

ABV for beer calculator is not same as wine calculator ?
Chaptalisation for beer calculator is not same as wine calculator ?

The Brewers Friend Chaptalization Calculator is for wine and ABV is ABV

 

[johncrobinson]

Thank you for your confidece Baron

Online calculators are NOT needed for making wine.
It is a simple matter of sugar to abv.

The use of these online tools is what is causing our friend andrew to have sleepless nights and pull his hair out.!!

 

[RichardM]

Thank you for your confidece Baron

Online calculators are NOT needed for making wine.
It is a simple matter of sugar to abv.

The use of these online tools is what is causing our friend andrew to have sleepless nights and pull his hair out.!!

How do you suggest he works out how much sugar to add to get the required SG?

 

[user 18729]

You are making wine,These calculators you refer to are for beer brewing.To work out mash efficency ect,ect.

Sugar to acohol tables are widely availible on the internet,And also on your hydrometer.
Dont confuse the two.

By the sound of it your wine "must" needs a boost.
To get to a decent alcohol content when it can preserve your wine.You need at LEAST 10%abv.
Some German wines I know are lower,But they are drunk young and fresh.
I make mine circa 15%, they would last for years,(If i did not drink them )

Acidity is another key component of making an age worth wine. Many TBA Rieslings for example may only be 6 to 8% but can age for decades

 

[Tavi-brewer]

Hi
Successful beer making is another world with its own complexities and differing threads on this forum is testament to that.....
I used to get confused with SG here and FSG here and your first question is a classic.
I'll assume you're making a gallon??
To get 14.5% you would need about 1.3kg of sugars, a starting SG of 1.105 and happy yeast. At the moment your SG is 1.070 which means you currently have 850g of sugar from the grapes (pretty good) and therefore you'll need 450g of additional sugar to raise your starting SG to the 1.105.
This is of course if you fermented it dry to SG 1.000 or below, but you don't want to. Taste aside you'd like 1.020 as a final SG so this complicates it a little.
You want a sweet and high ABV wine (sounds more like a Port to me) so more sugar is needed to shift your SG drop up the scale.
In simple terms you need a drop of 105 units to give 14.5% ABV regardless of starting and final SG, so.....
Add 20 extra units of sugar to your must which is 250g taking your starting SG to 1.125 then pitch your yeast!
You now have enough sugar (850+450+250=1550g) to allow a 105 SG drop giving you 14.5% and enough residual sugar if you stop at 1.020 to retain some sweetness.
Mother Nature often has a way of throwing in a curve ball but the calculations are right???
Does this seem correct guys?
The next step is how to stop your fermentation at 1.020..........

 

[Cwrw666]

How do you suggest he works out how much sugar to add to get the required SG?

How about just adding sugar and taking readings until he gets what he wants?

 

[RichardM]

How about just adding sugar and taking readings until he gets what he wants?

That's a bit hit and miss. Using a calculator would more reliable.

 

[Cwrw666]

That's a bit hit and miss. Using a calculator would more reliable.

Really? Have hydrometers stopped working or something?