Golden Ale clone...

[dsteel0]

Afternoon folks,

I'm looking for a little assistance. I picked up a recipe from the web, I've pasted it below.

I have a couple of questions on it...

- Since I work with a 20 litre pot, I'd be looking for my boil amount to be 20 litres. Can I just scale the recipe back by whatever that number is (about a 3rd) to achieve that?
- Alternatively, can I add just plain water during the boil to keep it topped up and have the final fermentation amount higher, closer to the original?
- On that note, what;s the difference between batch and boil size? From previous recipes, I'm used to seeing an initial mash amount, then a "plus whatever" to bring it up to the boil amount. Is "batch" the mash amount? So the below recipe would add 7.2 litres (through sparging I assume) to bring it up to 28.2 for boiling?
- I've just realied I've bought WHOLE Otter Maris grain rather than crushed. I assume I should be using crushed? Can I use whole and just mash for longer? Should I reorder or is there a good way to get it crushed to the correct consistency at home if I need crushed?

Any help appreciated...!

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 21.00 L
Boil Size: 28.20 L
Estimated OG: 1.043 SG
Estimated Color: 8.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 35.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4000.00 gm Maris Otter Pale Malt (5.5 EBC) Grain 94.12 %
250.00 gm Wheat Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 5.88 %
25.00 gm Pearle [6.90 %] (90 min) Hops 20.6 IBU
20.00 gm First Gold [8.20 %] (20 min) (Aroma Hop-SHops -
20.00 gm Cascade [7.10 %] (15 min) Hops 7.9 IBU
15.00 gm First Gold [8.20 %] (15 min) Hops 6.8 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale

 

[MyQul]

- Yes. What the exact amount would be, I dont know. If it was me (cuz I' m **** at maths), I'd simply input everything into some brewing software then change the batch size to what you want and then the amounts of ingredients will change correspondently

-Yes. I do this when I make 23L using my 15L plus 5L pot. If you treat your water in any way you need to treat the top up water too.

Alternatively you can easily do a 21L batch using a 20L pot doing what's known as Maxi-Biab. Basically using the amount of grain/hops for 21L you would mash and sparge using the amounts of water you would normally. This would then leave you with a more concentrated wort. You then take a gravity reading of this concentrated wort and dilute it to your target gravity using this dilution calc https://www.brewersfriend.com/dilution-and-boiloff-gravity-calculator/ . As mentioned any extra water (or wort if you do a seperatate sparge) , use it to keep the boil topped up. Boil the water/wort first before you put it in the boiling wort because if you dont it takes the main boil off the boil which takes time to get back up to boil and this then cocks up your hop addition timings. Are you doing BIAB or using a mash tun as Ill going into the process in a little more detail, although theyre pretty similar

I do Maxi-biab when I make 23L batches as Ive only got a 15L ans 5L pot. But I mostly make 5L and 10L batches

- Boil size is bigger then batch size as you need to take into account how much water will be boiled off from the wort during the boil

- No you cant just mash more whole malt as it needs to be crushed to get at the enzymes and starches in the grain to turn them into sugars. Ive read you can use a blender to 'crush' malt but never tried it.
If you're anywhere near Peckham, I've just accidently bought 10kg of crushed Lager malt when I wanted whole - Ill swap ya

 

[RichardM]

Boil size is the volume at the start of the boil
Batch size is the volume into the fermented
You can scale the recipe by multiplying everything by the factor you want to scale by
You could crush the grain with rolling pin, with the grain in a bag or find a local home brewer who will crush it for you

 

[MyQul]

Boil size is the volume at the start of the boil
Batch size is the volume into the fermented
You can scale the recipe by multiplying everything by the factor you want to scale by
You could crush the grain with rolling pin, with the grain in a bag or find a local home brewer who will crush it for you

You could do but I wouldnt fancy doing 4kg of it. Ive done specialty grains with a rolling pin, and that was tiresome enough

 

[dsteel0]

Thanks for the detailed responses, appreciate it.

MyQul, I've heard of Maxi-BIAB. Maybe a bit more than I can chew at the moment though - I think the best route will be to scale back by a 3rd or so (it's only my 2nd go so I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible!).

One question though - my first go was an "all-in-one" all grain kit, that detailed how much was to be used as the mash, and how much for the sparge (11l and 4l specifically if I recall correctly. This recipe doesn't specify that. Can I use any amount (say, 50/50), or is there a ratio that I can use as a general rule of thumb (I assume brewing software will tell me, but it would be useful to know if there is a "golden ratio" I can use each time)?

Myqul - I'm not near Peckham, I'm north of the border, otherwise I'd happily take you up on your offer! I'll send it back and get crushed. I did consider a food processor but assume you'd end up with lots of unwanted small bits/dust...

Cheers.

 

[MyQul]

Thanks for the detailed responses, appreciate it.

MyQul, I've heard of Maxi-BIAB. Maybe a bit more than I can chew at the moment though - I think the best route will be to scale back by a 3rd or so (it's only my 2nd go so I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible!).

One question though - my first go was an "all-in-one" all grain kit, that detailed how much was to be used as the mash, and how much for the sparge (11l and 4l specifically if I recall correctly. This recipe doesn't specify that. Can I use any amount (say, 50/50), or is there a ratio that I can use as a general rule of thumb (I assume brewing software will tell me, but it would be useful to know if there is a "golden ratio" I can use each time)?

Myqul - I'm not near Peckham, I'm north of the border, otherwise I'd happily take you up on your offer! I'll send it back and get crushed. I did consider a food processor but assume you'd end up with lots of unwanted small bits/dust...

Cheers.

For the mash a general rule of thumb is 3L/1kg some people use more some people use less. Tbh I dont know if there an accepted amount for the sparge. I just use 'some' for my dunk sparge, which generally works out to be about 1L/1kg

 

[Metacomet]

I do Maxi-BIABs in my 20l pot to make up 21L into the FV and 19L into a keg.
I'm still fine tuning the exact method, but I mash the full amount of grain and use just a little less water in the sparge stage (3l ish). What wort doesn't fit in the kettle goes in a smaller pot to simmer gently and gets added to the main pot when there's room.
If my calculations are off (which they have been recently), and my SG into the FV is too high and the volume too low, I just top it off with tap water (my tap water is very soft, so I don't mind using it straight from the tap).
I suppose if I do the full sparge volume I could just boil the excess seperately and add that to the FV at the end?