My 5C brewday

[Dave 666]

Well, I'm doing this today using a working title "5C" which is more down to the hops I'm using, which is the following:

Cascade
Centennial
Challenger
Chinook
Columbus

Grain for the brew will be:

Hock Head Pale Malt
Vienna

Though I also have Golden Promise, Propuno & Cristal at my disposal.

I was going to opt for Citra hops to, but the brew shop never had it in stock and today is brew day. Hopefully the other hops might compensate slightly. Had a cracking beer at a beer festival recently and speaking to the brewer who was there I was inspired by some of the hops he told me was in it to make a multiple hop brew.

I intend to do just a small 10 litre brew, as firstly the main brew bucket is reserved for something else and not used more than 2 hops in a all grain brew before. Not fully decided on quantity of hops just yet, working that out this morning on what's best for the boil and what's best at flame out etc.

 

[Dave 666]

Right, recipe decided as follows:

Target volume size: 10-10.5 litre

Grain bill: 2.5kg
2.3kg Hock Head Pale Ale
0.2kg Vienna

Hops (as above) planned as follows:
10g Chinook @ 60 mins (start of boil)
15g Cascade @ 50 mins
15g Challenger @ 30 mins
15g Columbus @ 15 mins
15g Centennial @ flameout

Plans to dry hop or something 3-4 days in.

Only thing I'm unsure of is adding hops at flame out. As seeing as it's better to cool as quickly as possible, well if hopping at flame out is there any pros or cons in letting the pot cool at a slower pace over as quickly as possible?. As in the past I've managed to cool in the pot ready to yeast from the boil in about 30-35 mins.

 

[Oneflewover]

What IBU is that giving you? Looks like it will be very bitter to me. Personally I'd shift the mid boil hops to late / flameout

 

[Ghillie]

Yeah I agree. Will be a pretty bitter and aroma-less brew with those additions. Personally I'd scrap the 50, 30 and 15 minute additions. Go with a small 60min bittering addition, small 5min addition and then lob everything else in as a hop bomb when the wort <75C

All those early hop additions will probably get you up around 100IBU's which would be rancid, no offence.

 

[The Baron]

I also think it is going to high on the IBU's. As said drop the additions to last 10 mins etc and near flame out

 

[Ghillie]

Just ran it through Beersmith and it would be ~90IBUs...

 

[Leon103]

What are you trying to brew and achieve?

I think for most tastes that's too bitter. I agree with what others have said and you should look to drop some of those bittering additions and do a whirlpool addition

 

[Dave 666]

Thanks guys, glad I checked back before starting, the IBU is not something I'd looked at or considered for some reason!. I just went purely on the hops alone on the recollection that they should do well in a brew!. Clearly I'm still getting some of the basis very wrong with all grain!. Basically a crisp, hoppy and good aroma was what I'm aiming for.

Is the issue more when to add than what I'm adding and quantity wise?. If so, would it still be ok to add the Chinook at the start then everything (quantity remaining the same) else? at flameout, just after flameout or when the temp drops to below 75 as suggested?.

If so how long would I then give the cooling process before getting down to the right temp to pitch the yeast?. I thought it important to cool as quickly as, but if adding most hops at flame out or below 75, then surely that suggests a longer cooling period before transferring to the fv?.

 

[Ghillie]

Thanks guys, glad I checked back before starting, the IBU is not something I'd looked at or considered for some reason!. I just went purely on the hops alone on the recollection that they should do well in a brew!. Clearly I'm still getting some of the basis very wrong with all grain!. Basically a crisp, hoppy and good aroma was what I'm aiming for.

Is the issue more when to add than what I'm adding and quantity wise?. If so, would it still be ok to add the Chinook at the start then everything (quantity remaining the same) else? at flameout, just after flameout or when the temp drops to below 75 as suggested?.

If so how long would I then give the cooling process before getting down to the right temp to pitch the yeast?. I thought it important to cool as quickly as, but if adding most hops at flame out or below 75, then surely that suggests a longer cooling period before transferring to the fv?.

I like my pale beers at around 30-35IBU, just my personal taste. Mash pH of around 5.3 for a reasonably crisp finish. I get down to 1.008-1.010 every time <1.060 OG.

If you add anything before 45mins, it will only add bitterness with practically zero flavour or aroma. Between 45 and 30 minutes, mainly bitterness with a small amount of flavour. Between 30 and 0 minutes is where the flavour and aroma comes in. The closer to 0, the more aroma.

Takes me around 30 minutes to cool to pitching temp from flame out. So if I add when the unit reads 75C then there's still around 20 minutes contact time which seems to work well. Certainly a stronger flavour and aroma vs a 10-15min boil addition IMO.

 

[Pavros]

I may be wrong here but I think the Challenger is going to be lost in the citrus hoppiness of the other hops. I would look to see if you could use it as the bittering hop and then use the American C hops for flavour and aroma (or even leave the Challenger out completely)

 

[Dave 666]

Thanks Ghillie, I wasn't to far off in my thinking after the initial replies, will leave the initial 10g hop until 40 mins in then with the rest at flame out, which as you say should give about 20 mins before transferring to the fv.

Still tempted to do some dry hop after a few days pending a drawn sample taste. Trying for something very hoppy light & crisp with decent aroma. But only a 10 litre brew so maybe see how it goes and tweak things from there. Sure wasn't aiming for a bitter type drink, definitely more research needed in future.

 

[Ghillie]

Thanks Ghillie, I wasn't to far off in my thinking after the initial replies, will leave the initial 10g hop until 40 mins in then with the rest at flame out, which as you say should give about 20 mins before transferring to the fv.

Still tempted to do some dry hop after a few days pending a drawn sample taste. Trying for something very hoppy light & crisp with decent aroma. But only a 10 litre brew so maybe see how it goes and tweak things from there. Sure wasn't aiming for a bitter type drink, definitely more research needed in future.

If you want it really hoppy, then dry hop is the way to go.

If you go with a 60min addition rather than a 40min addition - then you'll use less hops to achieve the same IBU level. Might only be a couple of grams less, but that means you have more hops to add later (flame-out or dry hop).

FWIW, I usually do a small 60min addition with a high AA% (like Columbus for example) to get virtually all of my IBUs. Then a 10 or 5 minute addition and dry hop. I've done the whirlpool/flame-out additions a good few times; and although good; I still prefer dry hopping for optimum flavour and aroma.

 

[Dave 666]

I may be wrong here but I think the Challenger is going to be lost in the citrus hoppiness of the other hops. I would look to see if you could use it as the bittering hop and then use the American C hops for flavour and aroma (or even leave the Challenger out completely)

You've got me thinking now as I'd read that Challenger is good fruity crisp hop if used later, but a good all round bitter hop. Maybe switch the Challenger with the Championship but add maybe 45 mins into the boil.

 

[Pavros]

I find Challenger is fruity in an English Bitter fruity way not in a citrusy American IPA way (if that makes any sense)

 

[Dave 666]

I meant swap the Challenger with the Chinook, bloody predictive typing!!!.

 

[Dave 666]

Whilst doing the boil I've just done a Ciderworks Superior Dried Oak Cider kit. Well, might as well use the boil time eh?. More so in 40 pints of cider at the same time!. Though unsure on the SG of 1044 against what the FG should be. Bits of Oak might have affected an accurate SG!. Hopefully cider FG reading is lower than ale?.

 

[Dave 666]

So, things went to plan, but a single hop (10g) 10 mins before flame out then the remaining 60-65g once below 75. And but a single point off the estimated ABV with the gravity reading, so can't complain much at all!. Now the waiting game begins!.

 

[Dave 666]

So, by the Saturday morning the airlock was going crazy, probably started within a few hours by the looks of things. Temps were\are a steady 20 give or take a degree either way so certainly at the lower and better end of the scale.

But this morning after maybe 2 1/2 days, fermentation has slowed right down and very little action from the FV so I guess that most of it is done with. So I think I might as well dry hop today with an option to give it maybe 4 days dry hopping before perhaps transferring to a bottling vessel to settle a few more days.

Only question which of the hops to use and quantity?. Still have all the above, Cascade, Centennial, Challenger, Chinook & Columbus. But also have Admiral here which I'm tempted to use seeing as I'm adding for aroma as much as extra flavour.

 

[IainM]

I'd use the cascade, centennial and chinook. Quantity wise, it really depends of what you want. For 10L, below 20g and it will be restrained by modern Ameican IPA standards. Above 100g and you'll be in juicy hoppy territory. Personally, I'd be at the higher end.

 

[Clint]

I usually dry hop towards the end of the second week.