Cascade hop recipe

Nottsbeer · Sep 2, 2021

Hi, I'm planning to use a few ingredients I have knocking around in a single hop (cascade) brew. Thought I'd just get any input on my recipe before brewing. This is for a 13L brew based around the recipe provided by GH.
1.5 kg Golden promise (56.9%)
1 kg Maris otter (37.9%)
136g Carapils malt (5.2%) - I have medium crystal malt I can use instead?
23.4g Cascade @ 60min
11.3g Cascade @ 15min
11.3g Cascade @ 5min
35.6g Cascade @ 0 min (left in for 30-60 mins).
OG is 1.043 and FG is 1.010. This is calculated to be a 4.3% ABV, 7.9EBC and 39 IBU.

I have a packet of US-05 yeast, or harvested Wyeast 1469. Although the GH recipe uses an American Ale yeast I'm tempted to use 1469 as I have it sitting in my fridge.

I like the idea of a citrus tang from the hops, but I also have some Challenger, EKG, goldings, Celeia and Fuggles I can add as a late addition/hop stand? I'm also tempted to add half of the first addition after the mash, before the boil starts, to increase aroma if that works, though I guess the addition at 0 mins may also do this?

I'm after a bit of advice on this one as my first AG was a simple brew using 25 g Goldings @60 min and 20 g Cascade at 0 mins (for a 10L brew). It was very drinkable but lacked something (and aroma). I also messed up priming that brew!
Thanks.

The Baron · Sep 2, 2021

I personally would put the hops in later for more flavour and maybe change the amounts to get to the IBU's you want.
One question is that the IBU's are calculated at 39 which for me is a little high ( but not for everybody) but has the calculation include the IBU's from the hopstand which you are putting in at flame out if not your IBU's will be higher than 39- just a thought.
You will certainly get a more flavoursome beer using all cascade than the previous beer

Nottsbeer · Sep 2, 2021

the baron said:
I personally would put the hops in later for more flavour and maybe change the amounts to get to the IBU's you want.
One question is that the IBU's are calculated at 39 which for me is a little high ( but not for everybody) but has the calculation include the IBU's from the hopstand which you are putting in at flame out if not your IBU's will be higher than 39- just a thought.
You will certainly get a more flavoursome beer using all cascade than the previous beer

Hi Baron. The IBUs were calculated using the Brewfather app, so I think the hopstand addition is taken into account (the IBU is also very similar to the GH recipe). I did a brew recently which had an IBU of 54 which was to my liking so I think this should be good for me. When you note "adding hops later for more flavour", is that a reference to not adding hops before the boil starts and use the full volume as I noted, or to add a higher volume for the late additions/hopstand? Cheers.

The Baron · Sep 2, 2021

No I mean not using it at the start of the boil but that would reduce your IBU's and adding them in at your other addition times (boosting the amounts). That would give you more flavour however if you do not want to lose your IBU's then do that and use a neutral hop like magnum at the start of the boil to give you your IBU's

Nottsbeer · Sep 2, 2021

the baron said:
No I mean not using it at the start of the boil but that would reduce your IBU's and adding them in at your other addition times (boosting the amounts). That would give you more flavour however if you do not want to lose your IBU's then do that and use a neutral hop like magnum at the start of the boil to give you your IBU's

Thanks. I'll have a play with the amounts in the app. I don't mind compromising IBUs for more flavour. I'm trying to make a few different types of beer as I'm new to AG so this will be a good experiment. Cheers. acheers.

matt76 · Sep 3, 2021

Nottsbeer said:
Hi, I'm planning to use a few ingredients I have knocking around in a single hop (cascade) brew. Thought I'd just get any input on my recipe before brewing. This is for a 13L brew based around the recipe provided by GH.
1.5 kg Golden promise (56.9%)
1 kg Maris otter (37.9%)
136g Carapils malt (5.2%) - I have medium crystal malt I can use instead?
23.4g Cascade @ 60min
11.3g Cascade @ 15min
11.3g Cascade @ 5min
35.6g Cascade @ 0 min (left in for 30-60 mins).
OG is 1.043 and FG is 1.010. This is calculated to be a 4.3% ABV, 7.9EBC and 39 IBU.

I have a packet of US-05 yeast, or harvested Wyeast 1469. Although the GH recipe uses an American Ale yeast I'm tempted to use 1469 as I have it sitting in my fridge.

I like the idea of a citrus tang from the hops, but I also have some Challenger, EKG, goldings, Celeia and Fuggles I can add as a late addition/hop stand? I'm also tempted to add half of the first addition after the mash, before the boil starts, to increase aroma if that works, though I guess the addition at 0 mins may also do this?

I'm after a bit of advice on this one as my first AG was a simple brew using 25 g Goldings @60 min and 20 g Cascade at 0 mins (for a 10L brew). It was very drinkable but lacked something (and aroma). I also messed up priming that brew!
Thanks.

Hi @Nottsbeer

I make 10-12L-ish batches similar to what you're planning here.

First tip I'll give you is don't use daft amounts like "136g Carapils" or "23.4g Cascade" - I find it much easier for stock control to use grain in 25g increments or more, and hops in 5g increments. I seriously doubt anyone would notice the difference!

I use (Weyermann) Carapils quite a bit - opinions vary but in my experience it helps with head retention. I tend to go with 250g which is typically ~10% of my grists but 5% or so (125 or 150g) isn't a bad place to start. I prefer not to add crystal malts to my hoppy beers, I think it suppresses the hoppiness.

Some ideas are below for your late hops - but you can still add some hops at the start of the boil to bring the total IBU's up to your target if you need to - I have an unproved hunch that an early bittering addition somehow creates a better overall beer.

One idea with hops that I've been trying is to add them at 15, 10 & 5mins roughly in the ratio 1 : 1.4 : 2. So I've been doing something like:
15g @ 15mins
20g @ 10mins
30g @ 5mins

Now for me the jury is still out whether this is doing everything I want in my beer - I have a new one to try this evening, so I'll have a better idea later! So next time I might try shifting these hops to 10, 5 & 0mins in the boil with that last addition being a whirlpool/hopsteep. I don't think there are any hard & fast rules but I'm not sure 30-60mins is necessary for a whirlpool - I'd probably do 10-20mins at 85-90degC, but I'm impatient!

Don't be afraid to juggle the hop amounts up or down a bit to suit your tastes (or the timings for that matter - it's your beer!).

You didn't mention it but you can add a dry hop if you want - no hard and fast rules so do your beer, your way. I'd be looking at 30-60g dry hop for my 10-12L-ish batches if I'm dry hopping and depending what I'm making.

US-05 is one of several "classic" strains you might use for a hoppy beer. For your brew size and OG half a pack will be plenty.

I haven't used WY1469 so can't comment - I believe it's highly regarded for bitters etc but I wonder if it's maybe not quite right for a hoppy beer. That said I believe WY1318 is widely used by the NEIPA crowd so who knows!

Have fun with it and report back

Cheers,

Matt

Nottsbeer · Sep 3, 2021

matt76 said:
Hi @Nottsbeer

I make 10-12L-ish batches similar to what you're planning here.

First tip I'll give you is don't use daft amounts like "136g Carapils" or "23.4g Cascade" - I find it much easier for stock control to use grain in 25g increments or more, and hops in 5g increments. I seriously doubt anyone would notice the difference!

I use (Weyermann) Carapils quite a bit - opinions vary but in my experience it helps with head retention. I tend to go with 250g which is typically ~10% of my grists but 5% or so (125 or 150g) isn't a bad place to start. I prefer not to add crystal malts to my hoppy beers, I think it suppresses the hoppiness.

Some ideas are below for your late hops - but you can still add some hops at the start of the boil to bring the total IBU's up to your target if you need to - I have an unproved hunch that an early bittering addition somehow creates a better overall beer.

One idea with hops that I've been trying is to add them at 15, 10 & 5mins roughly in the ratio 1 : 1.4 : 2. So I've been doing something like:
15g @ 15mins
20g @ 10mins
30g @ 5mins

Now for me the jury is still out whether this is doing everything I want in my beer - I have a new one to try this evening, so I'll have a better idea later! So next time I might try shifting these hops to 10, 5 & 0mins in the boil with that last addition being a whirlpool/hopsteep. I don't think there are any hard & fast rules but I'm not sure 30-60mins is necessary for a whirlpool - I'd probably do 10-20mins at 85-90degC, but I'm impatient!

Don't be afraid to juggle the hop amounts up or down a bit to suit your tastes (or the timings for that matter - it's your beer!).

You didn't mention it but you can add a dry hop if you want - no hard and fast rules so do your beer, your way. I'd be looking at 30-60g dry hop for my 10-12L-ish batches if I'm dry hopping and depending what I'm making.

US-05 is one of several "classic" strains you might use for a hoppy beer. For your brew size and OG half a pack will be plenty.

I haven't used WY1469 so can't comment - I believe it's highly regarded for bitters etc but I wonder if it's maybe not quite right for a hoppy beer. That said I believe WY1318 is widely used by the NEIPA crowd so who knows!

Have fun with it and report back

Cheers,

Matt

Hi Matt, thx for you reply. Regarding the hop amounts, I made the recipe based on 23l and then scaled it down. I should have rounded up the numbers before putting on here. I usually get closeish to my target but not bothered if over a bit! Interesting about the yeast, not one I've used before but good to hear it should work with this one. Saves me having to make a starter for my liquid yeast, will save that fun for another day. I've not used carapils before, had it in storage for a while, thus my wondering about using the open crystal I have. Think will go for it and open the bag. I may up the amount, and possibly the volume as I'm not too bothered about making a strong beer.

I think I only have 85g of the hops and as I don't want to buy another pack at the moment I may fiddle with the amounts and maybe put it heavier on the later additions than the early. I was unsure about using my other hops as I don't want to mask the flavours from this hop, sounds nice. Probably going to brew Sunday/next week so will decide then and will report back once bottled. Cheers

matt76 · Sep 4, 2021

Nottsbeer said:
I think I only have 85g of the hops and as I don't want to buy another pack at the moment I may fiddle with the amounts and maybe put it heavier on the later additions than the early.

Looking at your other hops, I haven't used Challenger myself but I believe you can use this for bittering, leaving your Cascade free for adding later

(I think Challenger is often used as a bittering addition in bitters - ISTR it's used in some of Fuller's beers)

Nottsbeer · Sep 4, 2021

matt76 said:
Looking at your other hops, I haven't used Challenger myself but I believe you can use this for bittering, leaving your Cascade free for adding later

(I think Challenger is often used as a bittering addition in bitters - ISTR it's used in some of Fuller's beers)

I've had a look at the hop info in the GH book - it seems that although Challenger and Cascade have similar Alpha ranges, Challenger is rated to have a slightly lower flavour intensity, thus I think it's a good call. athumb..

I was going to do this beer whilst waiting for some candi sypup to arrive for a Trappist style brew I'm planning. I read about how to make the syrup myself but decided to buy it instead as I don't have a suitable thermometer at the moment (or the time to tinker with making it!). The syrup is supposed to arrive later today I've heard. I've also noticed that with the slight temperature fall over the last week or so, my beer is not conditioning very quickly, thus I'm going to have to leave it longer before drinking. This is making me now consider making the trappist ale first as this may need longer to mature, and make the cascade ale next month. Will let you know which way i go. Cheers, john acheers.

An Ankoù · Sep 4, 2021

I've got a similar user-upper to do as soon as I get a breathing space. I've got too much cascade and it doesn't keep all that well. One of my favourite beers of all time is Oakham Bishop's Farewell, which uses piles of them. I'll be looking for a recipe. If you find it first, I'd love to have a link.

The Baron · Sep 4, 2021

Hi AA there is a recipe lurking around on Jim's also there is a video done by Clive Mitchell that has the recipe on it.
I am sorry I can not copy paste or put up links as it crashes my computer but if you search on Google for Oakham ale Bishops Farewell recipe I am sure it will come up and then you can make a judgement on if you think it will be close athumb..

Nottsbeer · Oct 6, 2021

Quick update on this recipe. Thx for the advice everyone previously. I delayed this brew as I put on a Trappist style beer instead last month. Planning to do this one early next week. The current plan is:
2kg MO
0.5kg Golden Promise (using remainder of a bag)
250g Carapils malt
10g Challenger @60
15g Cascade @15
20g Cascade @10
30g Cascade @5
35g Cascade @ 0 (85oC for 30 mins)
OG is 1.045; FG 1.011; 38IBU.

I'm still toying with dry hopping, but I don't have anymore Cascade hops. I may reduce each addition by 5g on the day and use 15g to dry hop.

I will write this up in my brew day once completed.

Again, thx to everyone for your input.

2Beers · Oct 6, 2021

I'd drink either of those

matt76 · Oct 7, 2021

Nottsbeer said:
Quick update on this recipe. Thx for the advice everyone previously. I delayed this brew as I put on a Trappist style beer instead last month. Planning to do this one early next week. The current plan is:
2kg MO
0.5kg Golden Promise (using remainder of a bag)
250g Carapils malt
10g Challenger @60
15g Cascade @15
20g Cascade @10
30g Cascade @5
35g Cascade @ 0 (85oC for 30 mins)
OG is 1.045; FG 1.011; 38IBU.

I'm still toying with dry hopping, but I don't have anymore Cascade hops. I may reduce each addition by 5g on the day and use 15g to dry hop.

I will write this up in my brew day once completed.

Again, thx to everyone for your input.

Looks good to me

Honestly I would leave the boil additions as they are and then either do a whirlpool or dry hop. It's not that you can't do both but I think you just don't have enough hops to hand to do it justice - for 10L or thereabouts 30g is already quite a modest dry hop.

FWIW the Hoppy Amber Ale I mentioned before is excellent - I dry hopped post-fermentation but that certainly doesn't mean whirlpool won't make a tasty beer either

Cheshire Cat · Oct 7, 2021

Try a Roosters Yankee
4000g MO
200g Torrefied wheat
28g Cascade @60m
20g Cascade @15m
22 litres @ 4.4%

Nottsbeer · Oct 7, 2021

matt76 said:
Looks good to me

Honestly I would leave the boil additions as they are and then either do a whirlpool or dry hop. It's not that you can't do both but I think you just don't have enough hops to hand to do it justice - for 10L or thereabouts 30g is already quite a modest dry hop.

FWIW the Hoppy Amber Ale I mentioned before is excellent - I dry hopped post-fermentation but that certainly doesn't mean whirlpool won't make a tasty beer either

Thanks Matt, will choose one option on the day

.

Your Hoppy Amber Ale sounds very nice...maybe one for the future

Nottsbeer · Oct 7, 2021

Cheshire Cat said:
Try a Roosters Yankee
4000g MO
200g Torrefied wheat
28g Cascade @60m
20g Cascade @15m
22 litres @ 4.4%

Sounds interesting. Just had a quick Google as I've never heard to that beer. Interesting as they note using Golden Promise. Guess they may also use Wyeast 1469 being a Yorkshire brew. I like that malt, and I have the yeast....so maybe will keep this in mind when I next order ingredients and get GP again.

Cheshire Cat · Oct 7, 2021

Bishops Farewell Recipe
23 litres BHE 70%
4300g Maris Otter
370g Wheat
35g Challenger @60m
35g Cascade @15m
35g Cascade @ flame out or whirlpool.
ABV 4.6%

Nottsbeer · Oct 7, 2021

Cheshire Cat said:
Bishops Farewell Recipe
23 litres BHE 70%
4300g Maris Otter
370g Wheat
35g Challenger @60m
35g Cascade @15m
35g Cascade @ flame out or whirlpool.
ABV 4.6%

That's another nice looking beer. Sometimes I feel like a kid in a candy shop with too much choice

. I'm not a big drinker and only have space to brew one batch at a time....think I'll stick to my recipe and see how it goes. If Cascade gives the flavour I'm hoping it does then I'll definitely be getting more of that hop. I really like the sound or BrambleX as well (I think that's what it's called) and want to get some for a future brew....as well as trying a Guinness style brew.

Covrich · Oct 7, 2021

I would personally use us05 for that, a single hop cascade brew with us05 is really lovely

Cascade hop recipe

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