Angela Rayner on the Tories

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Labour are not dead and we are not yet a one party state like Russia but we do have the most corrupt and uncaring government since the 19th century. Tony Blair showed how it could be turned around with massive majorities the problem with lots of Labour politicians is they don’t want power they want dogma
 
They may not be dead but they are floundering on the rocks.

Here is a little wager, labour will not win an election with Starmer in charge.

I look forward to you bumping this thread to tell me how wrong I was but I won't hold my breath.
 
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The elephant in the room for Labour is that they've lost Scotland and are in no position to get it back. They never seem to talk about it either.
 
Brew_DD2 said:
The elephant in the room for Labour is that they've lost Scotland and are in no position to get it back. They never seem to talk about it either.
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To regain Scotland, they would have to come up with something other than pandering to the flag shagging British nationalism that they think will work on the Red Wall. The two cant really work hand in hand.
 
To regain Scotland they need Edward Long Shanks or a realisation by the Scots that the SNP have no agenda apart from independence.
 
Cheshire Cat said:
To regain Scotland they need Edward Long Shanks or a realisation by the Scots that the SNP have no agenda apart from independence.
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Thats exactly why the SNP are hoovering it up though. There is huge support for indyref2, and no credible alternative to vote for really, because the other parties focus harder on denying indyref2 than the SNP do on delivering it.

The SNP also successfully point out the pathetic branch office status and various hypocricies of Scotlab and the Scottish Tories
 
Cheshire Cat said:
To regain Scotland they need Edward Long Shanks or a realisation by the Scots that the SNP have no agenda apart from independence.
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Even if you accept that either of those premises are true, it still leaves Labour out in the cold.
 
Brewnaldo said:
Thats exactly why the SNP are hoovering it up though. There is huge support for indyref2, and no credible alternative to vote for really, because the other parties focus harder on denying indyref2 than the SNP do on delivering it.

The SNP also successfully point out the pathetic branch office status and various hypocricies of Scotlab and the Scottish Tories
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How likely is a second referendum, do you think the SNP will be successful if the vote happens again.
 
samale said:
How likely is a second referendum, do you think the SNP will be successful if the vote happens again.
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One the vote happens, its not about the SNP being successful. Its about Yes versus No for an Independent Scotland. That detachment needs to happen now more than last after their performance during the pandemic and into the recovery.

As to how likely it is.... Honestly I dont know and am not deep enough in to offer an informed guess. My gut says it happens but I dont think it will be before.... say 2025
 
Two points of view in our family, my wife who's mother was Scottish says if Scotland get independence she will apply for a Scottish passport and wants us to move there.
My daughter who is married to Scot and lives in Glasgow says if Scotland gets independence then they will leave.
 
Re Labour - I'm 57 tomorrow - In my adult lifetime only 1 Labour politician - Tony Blair - has won an election - and today Labour would not elect him !?!.
In all that time they have never had another leader (with the possible exception of the late John Smith) with the requisite mix of personal and political attributes to stand a chance of being elected by the rest of the country. I seriously doubt I may live to see another one.

To win they (or anyone else) needs an electable and charismatic leader, a damaged/outmatched Tory leadership and a catchy slogan (I know this SHOULD not matter but in the REAL world it does!). This came together in 1997 with Blair, John Majors premiership and 'Things can only get better!' (in hindsight it might not seem that inspiring - but it actually did catch the mood of the moment).

Honestly I despair about politics - and stare at ballot papers looking for the 'least worst' not the 'best' choice
 
Th
Hoppopotamus said:
Re Labour - I'm 57 tomorrow - In my adult lifetime only 1 Labour politician - Tony Blair - has won an election - and today Labour would not elect him !?!.
In all that time they have never had another leader (with the possible exception of the late John Smith) with the requisite mix of personal and political attributes to stand a chance of being elected by the rest of the country. I seriously doubt I may live to see another one.

To win they (or anyone else) needs an electable and charismatic leader, a damaged/outmatched Tory leadership and a catchy slogan (I know this SHOULD not matter but in the REAL world it does!). This came together in 1997 with Blair, John Majors premiership and 'Things can only get better!' (in hindsight it might not seem that inspiring - but it actually did catch the mood of the moment).

Honestly I despair about politics - and stare at ballot papers looking for the 'least worst' not the 'best' choice
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They need that I agree but the stain of political back stabbing within the party will be a long time remembered and a lot of voters have lost trust!
I do see the benefit to the party/ leadership in regards changing the nomination process but again it’ll be a while before the bitterness of restricting paying members power, dissipates!?
 
Her language was, and is, unacceptable. She is a public representative in a prominent position and her language is the thin end of a dangerous wedge. Remember the milk-shake throwing incident a couple of years ago? That was rightly condemned as an episode of violent behaviour and if we accept derogatory language now there will be an escalation until we get to a situation of physical violence replacing political debate. If she can't use intelligent and reasoned argument to make her point she should resign and let someone who can, have her position. Justifying it by saying she is "working class" insults the vast majority of people who identify the same unless to qualify you have to be boorish ignorant and thick. Democracy in general is at risk and her language and dismal ability to express her arguments are part of the problem. Whatever happened to common decency?
 
Opinium showed 1300 people clips of Starmer's speech, and compared their reactions to two other first-speech-at-conference.

Obviously, direct comparisons are kinda meangingless and you can't draw too much from this, but at the very least it suggests that away from the noise of the pandemic etc that Starmer has something to work with. In particular he's got a clear rating as "competent" which I suspect will become quite appealing in the next few years.
1632990264122.png
 
Nubbin said:
Her language was, and is, unacceptable. She is a public representative in a prominent position and her language is the thin end of a dangerous wedge. Remember the milk-shake throwing incident a couple of years ago? That was rightly condemned as an episode of violent behaviour and if we accept derogatory language now there will be an escalation until we get to a situation of physical violence replacing political debate. If she can't use intelligent and reasoned argument to make her point she should resign and let someone who can, have her position. Justifying it by saying she is "working class" insults the vast majority of people who identify the same unless to qualify you have to be boorish ignorant and thick. Democracy in general is at risk and her language and dismal ability to express her arguments are part of the problem. Whatever happened to common decency?
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You sound like the general from Monty Python, what establishment nonsense.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
Opinium showed 1300 people clips of Starmer's speech, and compared their reactions to two other first-speech-at-conference.

Obviously, direct comparisons are kinda meangingless and you can't draw too much from this, but at the very least it suggests that away from the noise of the pandemic etc that Starmer has something to work with. In particular he's got a clear rating as "competent" which I suspect will become quite appealing in the next few years.
View attachment 55002
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What a fantastic result for Keir he'll wipe the floor with the scum at the next election.
 
Cheshire Cat said:
You sound like the general from Monty Python, what establishment nonsense.
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I apologise if my use of simple English offends you, but like you I can express an opinion, but unlike you (and Angela Rayner) I don't need to resort to mockery or insult to do so. If you don't like what I'm saying feel free to explain why, rather than attacking me. SInce you know absolutely nothing about me, if I explained that I am a lifelong Labour supporter, would that change your assumptions?
 
Guy Fawks was the boy,
He knew even then they were a useless lot of freeloaders

I have no hope of real and meaningfull change in my lifetime,
 
Nubbin said:
I apologise if my use of simple English offends you, but like you I can express an opinion, but unlike you (and Angela Rayner) I don't need to resort to mockery or insult to do so. If you don't like what I'm saying feel free to explain why, rather than attacking me. SInce you know absolutely nothing about me, if I explained that I am a lifelong Labour supporter, would that change your assumptions?
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No it wouldn't your views are from the 50's. This government are corrupt and evil and scum doesn't describe how truly evil they are. I don't know you but you posted on here and I can only judge you by what you write as you can me.
 
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