Partygate a new low.

pilgrimhudd · May 1, 2022

Chippy_Tea said:
This demonstrates the problem perfectly the majority of labour voters will think the Tories have made a right mess of things and should be removed the Tories are split between those that think they have done a good job and those that dont but will never vote labour and here is the result.

I will make a prediction if Starmer is still leader when we have the next election Conservatives will win.

With the majority the tories have labour would be going some to win the next election whomever they have in charge. I for one don't think starmer is doing a bad job, he's had to try to heal a big rift in the labour party before going after the tories.

Chippy_Tea · May 1, 2022

pilgrimhudd said:
With the majority the tories have labour would be going some to win the next election

But as all the Tory haters keep telling us they are corrupt, they lie they look after their own and have run the country into the ground they also got many votes from labour voters last time if this is the case there will never be a better time for labour to beat them.

pilgrimhudd · May 1, 2022

Chippy_Tea said:
But as all the Tory haters keep telling us they are corrupt, they lie they look after their own and have run the country into the ground they also got many votes from labour voters last time if this is the case there will never be a better time for labour to beat them.

Your right, but they have to overturn a huge majority which is unlikely, but not impossible. Even Blair would find overturning this one tricky. Theres also residual brexit voters who won't vote labour still. Having said that I wonder how many 'red wall' seats the tories will hold after the next election.

JeffDragon7 · May 1, 2022

Corbyns comments are easy to see on video, the media may bring it to our attention but it was there to start with.
parliament is not ruled by either the Tories, Labour or any other party, it’s ruled by the mega rich. If Labour were in power for the next 50 years nothing would change. They’re all puppets.

Rodcx500z · May 1, 2022

Why do people still vote for these dick heads, surely it's time to change the record, 69 years i have seen nowt has changed why o why do we keep voting for these nobs, what would they do if no one voted at the next election, we have the power to stop these bastards

Dutto · May 1, 2022

JeffDragon7 said:
Corbyns comments are easy to see on video, the media may bring it to our attention but it was there to start with.
parliament is not ruled by either the Tories, Labour or any other party, it’s ruled by the mega rich. If Labour were in power for the next 50 years nothing would change. They’re all puppets.

They may all be puppets, but give me someone who’s heart is in the right place, knows what a real life is all about and when elected is fully aware that a Tory will try to pull their strings.

Take a look at what the Labour Party has achieved for the average person in the UK and there is no sense in voting Tory!

Achievements? How about the NHS for a start? Then add on the areas where the Labour Party nationalised almost every industry that affected the average person. (e.g. water, railways, electricity, gas, postal services etc etc) and brought in Health and Safety at Work.

I suggest that you list everything that was privatised by the Tories. Name the industry and I guarantee we (the UK public) now don’t own it, are not in control of it and which we now complain about because it costs us dear!

There was nothing wrong with the ideas put forward by the Labour Party OR the actions taken to put those ideas into action.

There is a world of difference between a Socialist and a Communist but (surprise surprise) the media trot out the “left leaning Communist boogie-man” to frighten the UK Voting Public into voting Tory!

It has to end!
:hat:

Crappyfish · May 2, 2022

starseeker said:
Personally, i think they are all as bad as one another ,Labour , Lib Dem or Conservative ,you just have to choose your poison really .

Unfortunately it's thinking on those lines that's led to the mess we are in now. I can understand why thiugh.That's the Tories biggest and strongest weapon they have. Divide and rule created by the Tory media always focusing on the negative side of the opposition. While we are saying and thinking that, we are not looking at the bigger picture. The Tory party feed on working people's negative thoughts.

Crappyfish · May 2, 2022

It's really hard to think back to a more corrupted and immoral government from the past. The PM fined for breaking HIS laws, lying about traveling during lockdown, up to their eyes in dirty money, cheating on their partners, watching porn in parliament whist on government business,the list is endless. I read yesterday there has been 15 tax increases in 10 years from this government and still we have them in power and a possibility they could stay for even longer. Its unbelievable that working people can and will vote for them after this and even more unbelievable that folk defend them and do their dirty work for them by turning a blind eye and hoping it goes away and everything will get better.

StJayJay · May 2, 2022

Crappyfish said:
It's really hard to think back to a more corrupted and immoral government from the past.

the last labour government had its fair share of issues too. Mortgage scandals, corrupt payments, cash for honours, Nannygate, Keith Vaz, infidelity (including one government minister who was mugged in the process) and John Prescott *shudder*, minister getting £59k in taxpayers money for handprinted wallpaper long before Boris got in on that. The list goes on. The current crop are not much of an improvement, suspensions for bullying, racism, threats to attack love rivals with acid.
Up here in Scotland, the administration is no more trustworthy than the Westminster government (see ferries debacle for most recent example)
The problem with politics is that it’s generally deeply flawed individuals who seek elected office, whatever their political leanings. They are as a rule narcissists, self righteous, supremely arrogant, a psychiatrist’s wet dream. Coupled with the fact that they are not allowed to be uncertain or to say “I don’t know” for fear that the other side or the media will jump all over them (as they do to all sides) leads them to be less honest again. I don’t think anyone who would make a genuinely honest and decent MP would ever seek elected office.
The general public don’t help, we often act like a Springfield angry mob in the Simpsons.
it’s always been the same, it’s just a lot more easier to see now with instant news, social media magnification etc.

Brianbrewed · May 2, 2022

Last Labour government was over a decade ago.
The catch all statement that 'they are all at it' is frankly not true
Even all tories are not corrupt.
This attitude discouages participation in democracy and encourages voter apathy.

Whilst Keir Starmer may be a bit boring at least he is not a serial liar, a buffon and law breaker .

StJayJay · May 2, 2022

Brianbrewed said:
Last Labour government was over a decade ago.
The catch all statement that 'they are all at it' is frankly not true
Even all tories are not corrupt.
This attitude discouages participation in democracy and encourages voter apathy.

Whilst Keir Starmer may be a bit boring at least he is not a serial liar, a buffon and law breaker .

I mentioned the last Labour government in response to Crappyfish’s statement:

Crappyfish said:
It's really hard to think back to a more corrupted and immoral government from the past.

so I was just suggesting issues with governments of the past, starting with the most recent non-Tory government.

I do not think all politicians are corrupt. Corruption gets bandied about a lot but by historical standards and contemporary standards with some of our near neighbours, serious governmental corruption is thankfully rare in this country. Even the expenses scandal was relatively less serious than other things in Western democracies of recent times. Absolutely unacceptable but needs to be seen in context.

My suggestion is that most people who seek out elected office are flawed, beyond the average personality flaws in the background population. Politicians are fundamentally dishonest, whether it be bare faced lies with little attempt to appear honest as with Johnson or the more mundane untruths, fudges, omissions, broken promises etc. Politicians are scared of having straight conversations with the electorate because things are a lot more complicated than they are willing to say.
Despite my low opinion of politicians I still vote. If I have such a low opinion, I can never be disappointed and instead of getting bogged down in the hysteria and hyperbole of the individuals. I don’t think Conservatives are evil baby murderers, I don’t think Labour are lefty trots wanting to install communism, the SNP aren’t really all Braveheart obsessives. I vote for whoever at the time I think is likely to do the best job for me, my family, my work etc. I work for the NHS, 10 years in England under Labour and Conservative governments and the last few years up here under SNP. I’ll consider voting for most mainstream parties if they have good ideas, I just don’t really care about the individuals running them, they come and go and there are enough checks and balances through our system to keep some of the more extreme instincts from getting through.

Chippy_Tea · May 2, 2022

JeffDragon7 said:
parliament is not ruled by either the Tories, Labour or any other party, it’s ruled by the mega rich. If Labour were in power for the next 50 years nothing would change. They’re all puppets.

Chippy_Tea · May 2, 2022

Rodcx500z said:
Why do people still vote for these dick heads, surely it's time to change

The system is rigged so you either vote Labour or Tory as the other parties haven't got a cat in hells chance of winning all they can hope for is a coalition and look how the last one worked out, the system needs to be changed but it never will be,

JeffDragon7 · May 2, 2022

I worked for 24 years on the railway
Nationalised as BR I was a train driver earning a basic of 12 k a year, I worked 12 hours a day 13 days every fortnight. Ended with 25k a year. But was exhausted
Privatised, pay restructured I earnt 25k for a 44 hour week.
drivers are now on 70k some London drivers have hit 120 k
when it was BR depots had between 8 to 10 drivers sitting spare playing cards all day same with the guards, great for us but the taxpayer was funding this.
the average Nationalised business had poor management, huge over staffing and lost money hand over fist.
as for recent labour governments what did Blair do apart from becoming one of the richest ex PMs this country has ever known.
he did not give nurses the big pay rises
he took us to war over a lie
and left no money in the pot at the end of his tenure.
every Labour supporter I know tell everyone they shouldn’t vote for the Tories and when asked who they should vote for they say anyone with a brain should vote Labour,
I don’t tell anyone who to vote for, smacks of a dictatorship
ive lived through all 3 main parties in power and I base my choices on what I see, but they’re my choices

JeffDragon7 · May 2, 2022

Dutto said:
They may all be puppets, but give me someone who’s heart is in the right place, knows what a real life is all about and when elected is fully aware that a Tory will try to pull their strings.

Take a look at what the Labour Party has achieved for the average person in the UK and there is no sense in voting Tory!

Achievements? How about the NHS for a start? Then add on the areas where the Labour Party nationalised almost every industry that affected the average person. (e.g. water, railways, electricity, gas, postal services etc etc) and brought in Health and Safety at Work.

I suggest that you list everything that was privatised by the Tories. Name the industry and I guarantee we (the UK public) now don’t own it, are not in control of it and which we now complain about because it costs us dear!

There was nothing wrong with the ideas put forward by the Labour Party OR the actions taken to put those ideas into action.

There is a world of difference between a Socialist and a Communist but (surprise surprise) the media trot out the “left leaning Communist boogie-man” to frighten the UK Voting Public into voting Tory!

It has to end!
:hat:

Never mentioned Communism.
nothing done for the NHS at all for many decades.
Im probably in my last decade, I really hope Labour win the next election, infact I’ll vote for them. I have nothing to lose, I’m retired so if they become great benefactors to pensioners and the low paid I can’t lose.
but I do wonder who will foot the bill

Dutto · May 2, 2022

JeffDragon7 said:
Never mentioned Communism.
……

I mentioned it once to illustrate how the Right-Wing media mix up Socialism with Communism in order to put the voting public off the Labour Party - which is a declared Socialist Party! I can find nothing wrong with the motto “For the many and not the few!”

JeffDragon7 said:
……. the average Nationalised business had poor management, huge over staffing and lost money hand over fist.

Absolutely correct with regard to the “poor management”, but why blame the poor sods that were being employed and then badly managed?

The statement “lost money hand over fist.” is just an acknowledgement of what was being published at the time by the Right-Wing Media!

I used to send the NCB a cheque on a monthly basis for half of what was earned by an American Oil Company; because the NCB owned 50% of the investment in an offshore gas field.

The NCB also owned investments in other Oil and Gas Fields as the CEO of the time (Derek Ezra) wanted the NCB to be a total energy company rather than concentrating on just coal.

Before privatisation the NCB earned almost enough money from their Oil & Gas investments to off-set the cost of employing thousands of coal miners; but who knew because the media didn’t broadcast it!

I’m also wondering where I have “told” anyone to vote for the Labour Party?
:confused.:

I will freely admit that I voted for Tony Blair and that he became a great disappointment to me; but I have tried to never “throw the baby out with the bathwater” and stayed to fight for a UK that is governed for the many and not the few.
:hat:

JeffDragon7 · May 2, 2022

Dutto said:
I mentioned it once to illustrate how the Right-Wing media mix up Socialism with Communism in order to put the voting public off the Labour Party - which is a declared Socialist Party! I can find nothing wrong with the motto “For the many and not the few!”

Absolutely correct with regard to the “poor management”, but why blame the poor sods that were being employed and then badly managed?

The statement “lost money hand over fist.” is just an acknowledgement of what was being published at the time by the Right-Wing Media!

I used to send the NCB a cheque on a monthly basis for half of what was earned by an American Oil Company; because the NCB owned 50% of the investment in an offshore gas field.

The NCB also owned investments in other Oil and Gas Fields as the CEO of the time (Derek Ezra) wanted the NCB to be a total energy company rather than concentrating on just coal.

Before privatisation the NCB earned almost enough money from their Oil & Gas investments to off-set the cost of employing thousands of coal miners; but who knew because the media didn’t broadcast it!

I’m also wondering where I have “told” anyone to vote for the Labour Party?

I will freely admit that I voted for Tony Blair and that he became a great disappointment to me; but I have tried to never “throw the baby out with the bathwater” and stayed to fight for a UK that is governed for the many and not the few.
:hat:

Lost money hand over fist was not from the media, it was from my experiences with a nationalised railway.
I did not say you told me who to vote for, I voted Labour up to Blair’s 1st term I lost faith after that and switched.
for the many not the few is a great ideal but generally is abused along the way, it relies on other peoples money.
actually communism in someways works, it’s fault lies in the few that want to be more equal than others.

starseeker · May 2, 2022

I cant really imagine that many people would agree that BL to name one nationalised industry, was well run or value for money ,always on strike and built a load of **** !As for corruption, how about the Unite Union, Len Mclusky and the Unite Hotel ! And how about Geoffrey Cox and his close association with a man just arrested on drug smuggling and corruption ,and how about Geoffrey Robinson and his scandals ?

Chippy_Tea · May 2, 2022

Chippy_Tea said:
Boris Johnson has contacted Labour's deputy leader Angela Rayner to make clear that he views claims about her in a Sunday newspaper misogynistic.
Politicians have condemned the suggestion Ms Rayner tries to distract the prime minister in the Commons by crossing and uncrossing her legs.
The Mail on Sunday said some unnamed Conservative MPs had made the claim.
A minister said Tory MPs who hold those views could face "serious consequences" if they were identified.
Technology minister Chris Philp told the BBC he expected the Conservative Party would attempt to "identify who was responsible for those views", but said he doubted the Mail on Sunday would reveal who made those comments, given "journalists fiercely guard their sources".
Downing Street will not be asking for an inquiry into who made the comments to the newspaper, with a source saying this was because such inquiries rarely found the person in question.
Ms Rayner dismissed the story as a "perverted smear" that showed women in politics faced misogyny every day.

On Sunday Mr Johnson criticised the comments tweeting: "As much as I disagree with Angela Rayner on almost every political issue, I respect her as a parliamentarian and deplore the misogyny directed at her anonymously today."
A Downing Street source confirmed to the BBC that the prime minister had contacted Ms Rayner privately by text message to reiterate what he said in his public tweet.
BBC chief political correspondent Adam Fleming said that the texts between the two were in their "inimitable" styles, according to a source.
Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves told BBC Breakfast that "instead of just tweeting, the prime minister needs to get his house in order" and ensure that his MPs did not think they had "carte blanche to be saying this sort of thing".
"This is endemic," she added, saying that she did not think there was a single female MP or staff member in the House of Commons who did not have their own stories of misogyny or sexism.
She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the claims were "absolutely outrageous", and said it was indicative of a wider issue in Parliament.
"To be honest I am sick and tired of the way that female MPs and women are treated in Parliament and if this story and this outrageous slur on Angela gets things changed that would be a good thing."
A raft of politicians, including female Tory MPs, have also spoken out in support of Ms Rayner.
Conservative Caroline Nokes said too many female MPs of all parties had been "on receiving end of vile articles", while former minister Andrea Leadsom tweeted: "Really sorry Angela. Totally unacceptable comments and reporting."
Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer said: "The sexism and misogyny peddled by the Tories is a disgraceful new low from a party mired in scandal and chaos."
The Mail on Sunday is not commenting.

Full article - Angela Rayner: Tory source of misogyny claims will be punished, Boris Johnson says

Angela Rayner
@AngelaRayner
Well well well…
The original source of the vile Sharon Stone smear? 7 January before all the memes, before any podcast, and before Tory MPs’ dishonestly claimed conversations and where, might you ask, did it first appear?
The Daily Mail of course.

Dutto · May 2, 2022

When you study the largest Democratic and Socialist Political Party, you must expect to discover an element of disagreement and even some corruption!

The only thing that can be relied on is that the people who disagree with the aims and objectives of such an organisation, will do their damndest to publicise such failings.

At the moment, the opposition is terrified that the Labour Party will snatch away what they see as their God given right to rule if they get a majority in Parliament and thereby stop their gravy-train!
:hat:

Partygate a new low.

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