Gravity issues

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Philmac

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I have brewed a saison and my OG is lower (1.052) than it should be according to the recipe (1.060). I take it i put in too much water?
I've been struggling with finding out the amount of water to put in for the mash- is there any guides for this?
Does anyone have any tips for getting this part of the process right- and if possible keep it simple as i find there is a lot of immensely technical stuff that's way beyond me as a beginner brewer! :)
How do you go about fixing this in the future- i think i will just have to leave it this time around... Is that going to be a significant issue with this brew?..

Thanks!
 
I have brewed a saison and my OG is lower (1.052) than it should be according to the recipe (1.060). I take it i put in too much water?
I've been struggling with finding out the amount of water to put in for the mash- is there any guides for this?
Does anyone have any tips for getting this part of the process right- and if possible keep it simple as i find there is a lot of immensely technical stuff that's way beyond me as a beginner brewer! :)
How do you go about fixing this in the future- i think i will just have to leave it this time around... Is that going to be a significant issue with this brew?..

Thanks!
Several things could be off here:
-too much water for mashing (did the amount of wort in the fv turn out too much? boil off some next time)
-efficiency lower than expected (adjust with sugar next time)

The brew will turn out approx 1% lower in alcohol. If it tastes good, leave it that way: you're drinking it for the taste and not for the alcohol, don't ya?:laugh8:

Because you're a beginner, you might need some more brews to get a statistically more satisfying conclusion. You _could_ always add 10% more malt to the mash next time, that should either compensate for low efficiency, or give a bit more potent brew.

Or learn to live with lower-alcohol beer :cheers7: (my preference)
 
I have brewed a saison and my OG is lower (1.052) than it should be according to the recipe (1.060). I take it i put in too much water?
I've been struggling with finding out the amount of water to put in for the mash- is there any guides for this?
Does anyone have any tips for getting this part of the process right- and if possible keep it simple as i find there is a lot of immensely technical stuff that's way beyond me as a beginner brewer! :)
How do you go about fixing this in the future- i think i will just have to leave it this time around... Is that going to be a significant issue with this brew?..

Thanks!
What you need take into account is that you'll lose around 1l per kilo of grain and how much water you loose to boil off which will differ due too boil time length and time of year.
Try calibrating your boiler/pot dependant on setup whether electric or gas by filling to say 25l for 30 mins and using a marking stick measure the depth of water in your vessel and mark this on your stick with a pen,then continue to 45,60,75 and 90 mins measuring at intervals.
Once done reverse the procedure using a jug to measure with and this will give you a rough guide as to your loss.
Now say your aiming for 23l which is usual setup for most recipe calculators and we have a grain bill of 5kg we've already lost 5l and if we had a boil off of 5l we then add the losses giving overall water needed is 33l.
Knowing this you can then determine your efficiency of your grain by checking your gravity at the end of your boil when cooled to 20° which could also be that your on target with your water and not getting the estimated efficiency which is between 65 and 80 dependant on your grain crush,type or your mashing setup.
Also prior to boiling after you've collected your wort take a sample,note how much wort you've collected,let it cool and take a reading then enter it into the boil off/dilution calculator on Brewers friend which will also give you a ballpark figure on how long you may need to boil to reach your OG and if by good luck you have a higher reading with the correct amount of wort you can always add more water when cooled giving more beer.
Sorry if it seems long winded but there is a lot of variables and if you get to know your setup it leaves you in control and if you calibrate to find its your efficiency you try stirring your mash,temperature control,insulate better or add more grain to compensate.[emoji106]

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Gerrit- it will not be a problem that it is lower in %- the recipe was for a 6.5% beer and i prefer slightly weaker than that so may be grand- it is more about the taste being what is intended and being able to create what a recipe says- i have not got my head around this part of the process yet.
GerryJo- it is tricky but what you have said is less complicated than what I've seen elsewhere! I added 34.5l to approximately 5 kilos of grain.
Is it worth checking gravity during the boil to have an idea of the ballpark of where you will end up- atm I test OG from the fermenter and i would imagine it is less ideal to add sugar at this stage?
I will have a look at this properly when i get home.
Thanks!
 
Checking your pre-boil will give you an indication of what to expect and doesn't need to be done all the time but if you've calibrated your equipment,knowing your volume and boil off rate you can estimate your efficiency from your mash it will let you know if you should possibly add more or less grain and helps gain you better control and knowledge of your system.

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Jerry- Most recipes i have done include 5 kilos of grain- so is the 5 litres lost to the grain a constant yeah?
And then what i am basically doing is running a boil with water to see how much i lose in a given time?
 
Jerry- Most recipes i have done include 5 kilos of grain- so is the 5 litres lost to the grain a constant yeah?
And then what i am basically doing is running a boil with water to see how much i lose in a given time?
That's basically it allowing you to fine tune your system.

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Cheers
When do you measure gravity- i just read an article that says they measure the gravity in between the mash and boil- and if the gravity is low, dry malt extract can be added to fix the problem of low gravity?
 
Cheers
When do you measure gravity- i just read an article that says they measure the gravity in between the mash and boil- and if the gravity is low, dry malt extract can be added to fix the problem of low gravity?
Yes they are correct and loads of brewers do this and its Convenient and I've done it myself though as I got to know my system I got to know how to work it without having to add to it.
Its nice to how to fix it but even better to know why it needed fixing in the first place hence the Root Cause.

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Cheers
When do you measure gravity- i just read an article that says they measure the gravity in between the mash and boil- and if the gravity is low, dry malt extract can be added to fix the problem of low gravity?
It is one way of doing things, although it probably stems from the pissing contest of Brewhouse efficiency. There's a trend amongst homebrewers to over estimate or aim for higher efficiency, that can lead to missing targets and adding extract to compensate. The smart way is to err on the lower side, add in a margin for error, as adjusting gravity with water is easier, cheaper and results in more wort to ferment. Grain is also cheaper than extract, so better to be over target than under.

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I might add 10% more grain next time to see how that works out. I take it when checking the gravity of your wort after the mash you have to cool it down?
I started with 34.5L and ended up with almost 19L so volume wise I am not too far off what I was aiming for.
Tricky to get your head around and it can get very complicated very quickly!
Cheers!
 
I might add 10% more grain next time to see how that works out. I take it when checking the gravity of your wort after the mash you have to cool it down?
I started with 34.5L and ended up with almost 19L so volume wise I am not too far off what I was aiming for.
Tricky to get your head around and it can get very complicated very quickly!
Cheers!
Yes cool it to 20deg or you can use the wort correction calculator which will adjust according to your temperature.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/hydrometer-temp/
 
Most grain is 300LoD. Rough absorption is l/kg.
Start off with 75% efficiency and adjust as you gain experience on your system.
Here is how I approach it...

I want 40L in kegs at 1.053
Experience shows I'll lose approx 7L to dry hop, yeast and trub for my proposed recipe.
I want 47L in fermenter.
Experience shows I'll lose approx 7L to boil hops, trub and my chilling system.
I want 54L at the end of my boil.
Experience shows 7-11% evaporation depending on duration, intensity and humidity.
I want 60L at the start of the boil at 1.050.
50*60 to give total extract required, / 300 to give amount of grain / 0.75 for mash and sparge efficiency.
I need 13.33kg of grain.
Experience shows that I lose 600ml to the mash tun and will lose 13.33L to absorption.
I need 60L + 13.93 = 64L of water in my hot liquor tank.

If I miss these numbers then I need to adjust my expectations accordingly. It allows me to troubleshoot my process. Sometimes things go wrong, sometimes extract is not as good as expected. Sometimes it is a process thing I can improve upon, sometimes it is just moody malt. There are lots of dodges to work around issues on the day, all of them with various impact. While it is awesome to hit your numbers, you do what you've got to do.

Miss your volume? Either top up or accept a lower volume. Miss your gravity? Keep some DME or sugar on hand or accept a lower gravity. Consistently find you miss volume or gravity? Change your process or efficiency. End result is quite often just use a little more grain for luck. The scales are probably wonky after all!

Dough balls hurt your efficiency. Irregular sparge habits will give irregular results. Sparge temperature impacts efficiency. Mash pH and calcium levels impact wort separation and efficiency during the mash. Does your collection system include some bonus water? Did you get more or less evaporation than usual? Does your chilling system contain some bonus water?

Sorry man I'm doing this word vomit thing. Your question was correct amount of water to put into the mash. The answer is the right amount to give the required volumes based on your recipe and system with consideration to mash temperature which is vis a vis mass / ΔT. Also 2.6-3 dependent on if it fits in the mash tun and if it is a horrible sticky grist designed to ruin your life.
 
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