Special malts dosage

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Likbas

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What is your usual dosage of special malts like crystal, cara, amber, brown, chocolate and black malt?

How much contribute cara and crystal malts to the sweetness of the beer?

Is the flavour of the sweetness better, with high mash temperature instead of high dosges of crystal/cara malts?

Formerly they used for Brown Porter much Brown malt. What was much in this time? 50 percent? Or more?

How much should have a "normal sweet Bitter" within crystal/cara malts?
 
We in the UK like the term "crystal malt". Elsewhere you might get Cara(...mel) malt. I'll use 10% crystal (a medium, "dark" is quite strongly flavoured) in a bitter, but many folk think that's too much and even I have quietened down a bit and generally use 7.5%. Sweetness from high temperature mashes (I wouldn't consider it sweetness, more "weight" in the mouth) is quite different from using crystal malt.

"Brown Malt"? Now that's starting something. I pass to here: http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2008/08/brown-malt.html
 
Two great replies above. Both have some bold values and personal preference. Experiment and find what you do and don't like.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
 
Interessting statements and informations of you. Thank you.

I typically use for Bitters and most other british beer styles 12% crystal malt or british cara malt.

I mash in with ~82°C in a thermal isolated lauter tun. 60-90min, if the temperature falling to 68-70°C. Then I lauter and make a sparge with 80°C.

Now my question: operate the enzyms in the lautered wort anymore? My beers are mostly not sweet enough, so I think so. In future, I should lauter faster and boil the wort immediatley? How you handle it with single infusion in a tun?

In german beers I make multi infusions or traditionally decoctions. How famous are decoctions in british brewing? In germany we think, the britians do some hot water to the crushed malt and wait some time, in reason of comfort and the high malt modifaction(protein, etc.) of the maltings.

And another question: How do you get in the hop flavours into beer? In germany we boil the hops some times, often in two stages: the first add after protein break for bittering and the second add some minutes before the end of boil for flavouring. But british hops seems like something different - fewer of flavour level. I read about british hops are usually inseminated, being german hops are every without seeds. Also I read, inseminated hops let the flavour better out with a dry hopping. Is every Bitter, Golden Ale and IPA, generally hoppy beer in britain a dry hopped beer?

Tell me the truth about british art of brewing.
 
Don't know about sweetness but with Chocolate Malt I have discovered that I only need a small amount if I don't want the brew to taste like liquid chocolate!

For a 23 litre brew, I limit myself to 300g for Stouts and Porters and lower than that for Milds.
 
..............

And another question: How do you get in the hop flavours into beer? ...........

Personally, my simple answer is that I use whole leaf hops whenever I can:
  • Add the "Bittering Hops" for the full duration of the boil. (Normally 60 minutes.)
  • Add "Aroma Hops" at Flameout and let them steep. (Normally for 15 minutes.)
  • I then either Dry Hop after fermentation or add a Hop Tea prior to bottling.
For traditional British beers I predominantly use East Kent Goldings and although I've seen many recipes where the hops are added in small amounts at different times during the boil, personally I just can't be bothered.

Hope this helps. :thumb:
 
East Kent Goldings and although....

Goldings are nice. I taste every hop with warm water as a hop tea and list the smell and flavour.

Goldings
Smell: sweet, honey, bisquit, spicy like lebkuchen, little bit earthy, deep
Taste: soft, caramel, flowery, bisquity, round

But it exist much more very nice british hops:

Fuggles
Smell: sweet, herbal, caramel, popcorn, mint, fresh
Taste: soft, sweet, honey, caramel, mint, herbal

Challenger
Smell: herbal, spicy, cola-like, cherry, deep
Taste: sweet, "dark", spicy, herbal, cola, cherry, berry

Sovereign
Smell: sweet, herbal, flowery, honey, fresh
Taste: herbal, grassy, light mint, spicy

Progress
Smell: sweet, spicy, herbal,tea-like, bisquit, deep
Taste: herbal, grassy, flowery

Phoenix
Smell: dark, deep, spicy, caramel, dates, nougat
Taste: sweet, nutty, chocolate, spicy like lebkuchen, very soft and round

Target
Smell: tart, sweet, woody, herbal, cola-like
Taste: liquorice, woody, herbal, spicy, unround and harsh

Northdown
Smell: sweet, woody, rosiny, sandlewood, spicy, herbal, deep
Taste: hoppy, fresh, grassy, etheral(sandlewood)

Bramling Cross
Smell: sweet, spicy, berry
Taste: sweet, berries, "cherry-cream-cake", grassy, mint, herbs, soft and round

Pilgrim
Smell: fruity, sweet, caramel, peach, hoppy
Taste: fresh, grassy, some fruits

Some hops I have to taste, there I store in my cellar: First Gold, Whitbread Golding Variety, Pioneer, Boadicea, Northern Brewer.

Some hops I haven't, but I want: Sussex, Beata, Bullion, Flyer and Ernest. But there are very rare, especially the Sussex hop.

I do the same with hops from other countries.


I have never dry hopped, but I will try.
 
For traditional British beers I predominantly use East Kent Goldings and although I've seen many recipes where the hops are added in small amounts at different times during the boil, personally I just can't be bothered. ...
Shhh … that's heresy. Get yourself a stopwatch - plan for hop additions every 37 seconds - (optionally) grow a beard. You can't make good beer without multiple, carefully timed, hop additions … err … I think?


Sorry, "Likbas" appears to be from Germany? And might not understand I'm "taking the pi$$". "Likbas", ignore me!
 
Typically single infusion mash dominates because decoction/multi stage/rests etc are all methods to get around under modified malt which is common on the continent. We have rain to spare so our malt is normally starting to modify while still in the field.

Irrespective of whatever is going on at the moment traditional British beer/brewing really needs to be understood within context of cask ale as it was/is the historic serving method and the processes are linked. The beer is rushed out of the brewery still fermenting and on the yeast because the rest of the job is traditionally handled at the cellar end. Typical gravity beer is fermented within a couple of points of terminal gravity, usually 72 hours, cold crashed, fined and racked to cask with a more moderate yeast count. This is about a 5 day process.

The beer is expected to spend a week or two before being served in cask which is where the normal conditioning process happens, the roll on the way to the pub resuspends the yeast, they do a bit more, but not a lot more due to the cellar temperatures. The cask is put up (stillaged) and the shive (bung hammered in after filling) on the cask is broached with a soft wooden peg to allow the cask to 'breath' (vent) excess pressure escapes through the wood and it acts as a rudimentary one way valve. As the cellar is cool and the cask doesn't get moved an equilibrium of co2 is reached during this secondary fermentation. The cellar decides when it is done, replacing the soft peg with a hard impermeable one until service, usually when they find it has dropped bright as fermentation is now complete. The peg is removed for service and the cask is allowed to draw air to replace the dispensed beer, changing the character of the beer over time and as such the whole cask is designed to be drunk certainly within a week, ideally within 3 less than 5 days. Part of the 'charm' is getting a good pint when the beer is at its peak after correct treatment by a good cellar person.

The yeast strains used all have a fairly big part to play in this, tending to give up early and flocculate around 1.008-1.012 although with work and time will often attenuate further. This point which has a home brewer scratching their head is the point when it'd go into cask, waiting for a roll to the pub to resuspend and restart fermentation for the conditioning process.
 
Typically single infusion mash dominates because decoction/multi stage/rests etc are all methods to get around under modified malt which is common on the continent. We have rain to spare so our malt is normally starting to modify while still in the field.
Do you think this year's extreme weather will have an effect on the malt quality next year? I live almost in East Anglia and I've noticed the farmers are out harvesting already which seems really early compared to previous years. Not sure if it's barley or wheat but usually it's not until August that I seem them out harvesting in the fields.
 
Do you think this year's extreme weather will have an effect on the malt quality next year? I live almost in East Anglia and I've noticed the farmers are out harvesting already which seems really early compared to previous years. Not sure if it's barley or wheat but usually it's not until August that I seem them out harvesting in the fields.

I don't think so for barley. Spring harvests were good. Winter harvests should be good as well. Wheat won't have done so well. To be honest while we always notice when they shift from spring to winter barley the maltsters are quite good at their job, keeping it within spec and blending when required. They can increase the amount of modification when malting, but they can't decrease it when it is happening in the field. Keeping it within spec is a bit double edged though because what looks in spec on paper doesn't always perform in the brewhouse so we'll see. Also the more you spend on base malt (within reason) the tighter these specs are. Like you might be happy with 2-9EBC, but you might need 2-4EBC. You'll pay for the tighter spec because they have to source malt with a tighter range with less blending.
 
........... We have rain to spare so our malt is normally starting to modify while still in the field. .........

.......... changing the character of the beer over time and as such the whole cask is designed to be drunk certainly within a week, ideally within 3 less than 5 days. Part of the 'charm' is getting a good pint when the beer is at its peak after correct treatment by a good cellar person.

............

Great Post! :thumb:

Couple of comments:

1. This year we have had one of the driest and warmest summers on record. This will almost certainly have an effect on the barley and it ain't over yet! Not only that, a few of the "Scottish Whisky Appreciation" type forums are awash with comments about the use of "foreign" barley whereas back in 2016 the UK was a net exporter of malted barley! One answer may be that England is considered as being "Foreign" to the Scottish Whisky appreciation society!

2. Oh, how true the comment on "changing the character of the beer ...." etc! There used to be a brewery in Alford, Aberdeenshire that brewed one of the finest pints I have ever tasted. Unfortunately the local pubs couldn't sell enough of it (I did my best - honestly) to empty the wooden barrel before it went "off" and as a result the brewery had to shut down!

As you point out it was very much "part of the charm" of beer drinking if you could find and keep a pub with a good cellar and a good cellar man; however, in today's world where the pubs get away with selling frozen pishe it's become mainly a lost art ...

... which is probably why we are all brewing at home! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
 
Sorry, "Likbas" appears to be from Germany? And might not understand I'm "taking the pi$$". "Likbas", ignore me!

Yes I am. And no, Likbas is a fantasy nickname ;-)

I don't know what you mean with "taking the pi$$" why should I ignore you?


Now I drink a cask conditioned Altbier from 9th April 2018 (filled in the cask, conditioned in cellar). The yeast was too fruity and the hop too hoppy at the begin . Know it is perfect for this Style! A little bit metallic in taste is okay.
 

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… I don't know what you mean with "taking the pi$$" why should I ignore you?...
Why ignore me? Because I am being daft ("doof"? "Bekloppt"? These are Internet translations). I forget you might not understand. And "taking the pi$$" means I am not being serious; the "...$$" for "...ss" because this site automatically finds bad words and turns them into "****".
 
Why ignore me? Because I am being daft ("doof"? "Bekloppt"? These are Internet translations). I forget you might not understand. And "taking the pi$$" means I am not being serious; the "...$$" for "...ss" because this site automatically finds bad words and turns them into "****".

Okay. However, in my opinion you're nice. Have a relaxed weekend, also if you are "durchgeknallt"(that's the term you looked for) ;-)

"Doof" literal means "stupid", but sometimes we say jestingly and/or cordial "doof" if anyone is funny in answer of a joke. "Bekloppt" is a middle thing between "crazy" and "insane". "durchgeknallt" is similar to "bekloppt" but with fewer negativity. "Verrückt" or without umlaut "Verrueckt" literal means "insane", but we use it sometimes like "doof" cordial and/or jestingly.

In my opinion is the filtering of bad words well. Maybe I am a little bit strict and bekloppt together, but hey I am german :-D
 
One of the joys and problems of the English Language is that you can insult people without them or you ever knowing about it!

Many saying will translate very well into another language so that only those born to it can understand what is really being said. My favourite one is "This man will go far and the sooner the better." Used in a Job Reference it can be seen as high praise, but properly understood it definitely is not.

Other things that don't translate very well are English slang saying such as "Going like the clappers." which translates into:
  • French as "Goes like the wings."
  • German as "Go like the clatter."
In actual fact it is a saying that means "Going very quickly." which translates into:
  • French as "Go very fast." (Aller très vite)
  • German as "Go very fast." (Sehr schnell gehen)
Which brings us to another problem! The word "fast" can mean:
  • "quick" as in "He was very fast and won the race."
  • "forward" as in "The clock is fast."
  • "refusing food" as in "He had been on a fast."
  • "restrained" as in "I made the boat fast to the bollard."
  • "sexually unrestrained" as in "She was a fast woman."
There may be others that I haven't thought of, but I do know that my inability to translate some of the idioms in the English language have resulted in some long, long explanations to both French and German friends ...

... which has ruined quite a few jokes over the years! clapa
 
One of the joys and problems of the English Language is that you can insult people without them or you ever knowing about it!

Many saying will translate very well into another language so that only those born to it can understand what is really being said. My favourite one is "This man will go far and the sooner the better." Used in a Job Reference it can be seen as high praise, but properly understood it definitely is not.

Other things that don't translate very well are English slang saying such as "Going like the clappers." which translates into:
  • French as "Goes like the wings."
  • German as "Go like the clatter."
In actual fact it is a saying that means "Going very quickly." which translates into:
  • French as "Go very fast." (Aller très vite)
  • German as "Go very fast." (Sehr schnell gehen)
Which brings us to another problem! The word "fast" can mean:
  • "quick" as in "He was very fast and won the race."
  • "forward" as in "The clock is fast."
  • "refusing food" as in "He had been on a fast."
  • "restrained" as in "I made the boat fast to the bollard."
  • "sexually unrestrained" as in "She was a fast woman."
There may be others that I haven't thought of, but I do know that my inability to translate some of the idioms in the English language have resulted in some long, long explanations to both French and German friends ...

... which has ruined quite a few jokes over the years! clapa



The problem we have in german really too. But germans react quickly angry.

But I don't know when anyone are annoyed. I am never annoyed due to nothing and haven't fantasy feelings.

Why? I am asperger autist. The problem has been a problem in german homebrewer forum. Therefore I left it, I didn't want offended by moderators due to a thing which I can't understand. I really can't, but some people won't understand, that I can't understand their nagging. Yes the theme is unpleasant for me. I am here because I hope the british culture is more autism friendly and open-hearted to neuro-atypical people as germans is.

I think Peebee is robust in this theme, anyway it feels like so.
 
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