Boil time

24902657 · Oct 17, 2018

Hi All,

I have been searching the internet and watching You Tube, when it says in recipes about a 6ominute boil, do we really have to boil for 60 mins.

The reason I ask is that I have watched a couple of videos recently and I have seen people just doing a 30minute boil which sure reduces there brew day, by a while.

Are there any benefits of doing a full boil or am I completely mistaken.

Does anybody else do smaller boils.

I always do a 5 gallon batch, and it is in a electrim boiler.

Thanks

Bigd2657 · Oct 17, 2018

Hi,

I have been doing all grain BIAB for about 6 months now and all my boil times for any recipe is 30 mins, the reason I do this is because it mentioned in a thread I read on this site that, all the sugars would have come out of the grain by the 30min. And so I could not see the point in carrying on for an extra 30mins.

The only problem I have is when I use my electrim boiler I struggle to keep my settings at 66deg for a mash, it soon keeps shooting up to about 70 / 72 so then I have to turn the power off, which obviously reduces the heat.

Smileyr8 · Oct 17, 2018

I boil for 30 minutes, I have not had any issues, I have a Burco Cygnet and use the BIAB method.

BigD you say you boil for 30 minutes but what you appear to talk about is mashing?

Duxuk · Oct 17, 2018

30 minutes may not be long enough to fully isomerise the alpha acids in your hops. Putting it simply, a longer boil will give more bitterness from the first hop addition. Subsequent additions will add the rest of the hop flavour profile.
Also, for clear beer, you want to reach the hot break stage, where proteins (?) start to clump together and drop out. This is likely to require longer than 30 minutes.
You can always achieve clarity by fining using Irish moss, Whirlfloc etc.
My best tip to shorten a brew day is to start the mash the night before, or first thing in the morning for an evening brew. This way you don't have to twiddle your thumbs waiting for the mash to do it's bit. Also you will improve efficiency by around 10%. It's advisable to increase your mash temperature to avoid a drier beer if you do this.

Bigd2657 · Oct 17, 2018

Smileyr8 said:
I boil for 30 minutes, I have not had any issues, I have a Burco Cygnet and use the BIAB method.

BigD you say you boil for 30 minutes but what you appear to talk about is mashing?

Hiya,
I'm sorry it was early in the morning yes you are correct. I do still boil for 30 mind on every brew, but I still have my problem with my mash in my electric boiler.
I saw this thread and thought maybe I could get an answer as I do the same. Lol.

dan125 · Oct 17, 2018

This is an interesting podcast about boiling:-

Bigd2657 · Oct 17, 2018

Thanks. Very much

Bigcol49 · Oct 17, 2018

Hi @Bigd2657
You are on a hiding to nothing trying to mash in a boiler while it is heating. The thermostat will be too "coarse" to maintain a good mash temperature. You could continue to use it as a mash tun - set the strike temperature, dough in and smother it with old quilts, blankets, mother-in-law's drawers - anything to insulate it.

MmmBeer · Oct 17, 2018

My last 4 or 5 brews have all been 90 minute boils. The reason was that I had previously had 3 or 4 batches that had a DMS flavour to them; various potential causes, but one was insufficient boiling. Swapped from 60 to 90 mins, no problem since.

Have also tried adding more dark malts thus making darker ales and am getting to grips with better water treatment for my hard water. Once I can crack a decent DMS free pale ale I will reduce boil times to see if it's still a factor.

Simonh82 · Oct 17, 2018

I've started boiling for less time recently, particularly for hoppy beers where late kettle additions are a good thing and so far I've had no issues. The main reasons people recommend longer boils are:

To concentrate the wort to your intended specific gravity. This can be achieved by upping your grain bill and accounting for the reduced boil-off in your kettle
To extract maximum bitterness from hops. This can be achieved instead by adjusting the amount of hops you use at the start of the boil, however extraction and isomerisation are not linear with time so you get more bitterness extracted in the first 10 minutes than in the whole of the last half hour of a boil so you don't need to use loads more.
To achieve hot break - I've never had an issue with protein coagulation with a shorter boil if you used irish moss/protofloc.
To drive off DMS or its precursor chemicals. I think that in the past this might have been an issue with short boils but with modern malts and the surface area to volume ratio of the average home brew set up I don't think this should be an issue. Certainly the short and shoddy series of experiments on brulosophy suggest that it is not a significant problem.

Sadfield · Oct 17, 2018

Simonh82 said:
I've started boiling for less time recently, particularly for hoppy beers where late kettle additions are a good thing and so far I've had no issues. The main reasons people recommend longer boils are:

To concentrate the wort to your intended specific gravity. This can be achieved by upping your grain bill and accounting for the reduced boil-off in your kettle

To extract maximum bitterness from hops. This can be achieved instead by adjusting the amount of hops you use at the start of the boil, however extraction and isomerisation are not linear with time so you get more bitterness extracted in the first 10 minutes than in the whole of the last half hour of a boil so you don't need to use loads more.

To achieve hot break - I've never had an issue with protein coagulation with a shorter boil if you used irish moss/protofloc.

To drive off DMS or its precursor chemicals. I think that in the past this might have been an issue with short boils but with modern malts and the surface area to volume ratio of the average home brew set up I don't think this should be an issue. Certainly the short and shoddy series of experiments on brulosophy suggest that it is not a significant problem.

I think there's more to add to this, regarding flavour development and stability.

As mentioned, the Brulosophy short and shoddy brews show no significant issues. However, those beers don't tend to hang around long enough for shelf life issues to show up.

ACBEV · Oct 17, 2018

For me a 60 minute boil is a minimum. My non scientific reasoning is the beer just doesn't taste quite right, if boiled for less time. Add in the technical reasons, it doesn't seem prudent to boil for less than an hour.

During WWII, breweries were forced into shortening boil times to 60 minutes, due to fuel shortages. After the war, they resumed boiling for a longer time. I'm sure these businesses wouldn't boil for over an hour if the process to brew good beer didn't need it.

Ajhutch · Oct 17, 2018

I would say 60 minutes is a good baseline (I recall an episode of the Drew Beechum / Denny Conn podcast where they went into the science around the half life of DMS precursor) and then assess any reason to go longer or shorter.

I’ve done some 90 minute boils where I’ve been really looking for the development of melanoiden flavours for example. Does this really work? I don’t know, but if some smart people say it does and all it costs me is an extra litre of water, a few pence on the electric bill and half an hour on my brew day, I’m happy to give the beer the best chance I can to be good.

When it comes to the DMS issue, I use no chill so I’m sensitive to the idea that I should boil long and boil off the converted precursor. Having said that, I don’t have a particularly sensitive palate, I’ve tasted beers that are notorious for having a lot of DMS but I didn’t come away from them sure of what it tasted like! So if I’m making a fairly straightforward beer and I know it’s going to be me drinking most of it, as opposed to competitions or swaps, maybe I’ll shorten the boil to save time.

Sandimas · Oct 17, 2018

I started trying shorter boils and can't taste the difference. As for getting less bitterness, just add more hops to the lesser boil time to hit the target IBU.

Can someone describe this DMS flavour that some seem to get?

Brew_DD2 · Oct 17, 2018

I do a 30 minute boil and up the bittering hops accordingly. Absolutely no difference noted apart from a shorter brew day.

Simonh82 · Oct 17, 2018

P

darrellm said:
I started trying shorter boils and can't taste the difference. As for getting less bitterness, just add more hops to the lesser boil time to hit the target IBU.

Can someone describe this DMS flavour that some seem to get?

People talk about a cooked corn or sometime boiled cabbage flavour. I think I had it in the first couple of beers I made but they were both stove top extract beers and my under powered hob could barely reach a simmer so I had to keep the lid on. I think the DMS that should have evaporated just dripped back into the beer.

BeerCat · Oct 17, 2018

Or don't boil at all. :beer1:

MmmBeer · Oct 18, 2018

darrellm said:
I started trying shorter boils and can't taste the difference. As for getting less bitterness, just add more hops to the lesser boil time to hit the target IBU.

Can someone describe this DMS flavour that some seem to get?

Its hard to describe the flavour, but certain lagers have it in spades. Try a bottle of the spanish lager Estrella Damm, or as Charlie Bamforth mentions in the podcast Dan125 posted, Rolling Rock.

Bigcol49 · Oct 18, 2018

Hi!
It all seems to be down to individual palates - some people seem to be very sensitive to DMS, while others can't recognise the taste at all.
I drink Estrella Damm in Spain without noticing any "unpleasant" taste.

bobukbrewer · Oct 18, 2018

I bring the wort up to boiling point very slowly, and skim off the hot break. Then I boil for 15 minutes and then add some of the hops and boil for 30 minutes adding more hops at 10,10,5,3 minutes. I use more hops at start to compensate for 30 minute boil. As reported in the dry hopping thread I sometimes add hop tea on day 3. It works for me. Most of my beers are far better than beers I am served in a pub. now a blatant plug for Pot Belly Brewery Kettering, their Pigs Do Fly is superb !!!!

Boil time

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