Extract or straight to AG?

As others have said, if all grain is your goal, and you have the free time to spare, then go straight for all grain. Personally I see nothing to be gained going via extract, other than saving time on a mash step. The cost of this though is not learning how to mash grain. If your goal is all grain, then learning to mash is of value to you. All grain trades monetary expense for time and effort basically, and to be honest I wish folks would stop seeing extract brewing as a learning step towards all grain. It'd be far better viewed as just a choice.

Both methods have pros and cons, neither should be seen as a poorer cousin to the other (as end of the day, mashing grains really isn't that hard to do!). It's like when people get told to use kits first, as a step towards all grain brewing. All they learn doing that is how to clean and sanitise properly, and how to pitch a packet of dried yeast... Usual at serious expense to the person doing it, money that could be spent on the equipment they will one day want for either extract or all grain brewing...

Better to spend money on some good books, than waste it on a brewing technique you're not really interested in, IMHO. You'll never regret it that way.

PS. I'm mid all grain brew day as I type this, not long started the 60 minute boil. lol

I started out 4 years ago on kits, then moved to extract, then a mini-mash & extract mix. I bought a Grainfather late last year to move to AG.

I’ve brewed some great beers and had some absolute nightmares with each method. I’ve also got a lot of kit that is no longer used. As AdeDunn says above, all that kit costs money and if you’re doing the long haul through all the methods just to learn the process (as I did) it’ll cost more.

One advantage of doing all the methods is that I know that AG brew days are the most enjoyable for me.....and they are looong days

Arrakus said:

I started out 4 years ago on kits, then moved to extract, then a mini-mash & extract mix. I bought a Grainfather late last year to move to AG.

I’ve brewed some great beers and had some absolute nightmares with each method. I’ve also got a lot of kit that is no longer used. As AdeDunn says above, all that kit costs money and if you’re doing the long haul through all the methods just to learn the process (as I did) it’ll cost more.

One advantage of doing all the methods is that I know that AG brew days are the most enjoyable for me.....and they are looong days

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Just curious, what equipment aren't you using anymore? I never did kits, but otherwise took a similar path as yourself (although Robobrew instead of Grainfather), and there isn't much gear that I don't still use.

It's way too additive!

Portreath said:

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It's way too additive!

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Addictive?

Like many here have also said, I skipped from kits straight to all grain, based initially on Clibits guide, then 10l BIAB and now Grainfather. I have since done a couple of extract kits that I managed to buy half price and was pleased with the results, the reliability and the convenience.

The main thing that keeps me doing AG brews is the cost of the ingredients, for an average strength recipe (average for me), the AG ingredients would cost £11, the extract ingredients would cost £39. How may brews would you have to do to pay for the extra kit?

I can fully understand the attraction of Extract brewing because of the ease of making them.

What can put people off of All Grain brewing (I think) is the what looks like, the mathematical aspects of it, I mean, working out efficiencies, alcohol percentages, bitterness IBU's and the like. I often look at recipes and groan a little, but I still have a go, and do enjoy All Graining without paying much attention to all that.

Once upon a time I walked into my LHBS for a 20 quid wherry kit and walked out with 180 quids worth of BIAB kit and a copy of the Graham Wheeler book.

foxbat said:

Once upon a time I walked into my LHBS for a 20 quid wherry kit and walked out with 180 quids worth of BIAB kit and a copy of the Graham Wheeler book.

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Classic Wherry brewer, obviously stalled in the shop and needed some money rousing out of your wallet to get you going again.

skulltat280 said:

Addictive?

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No doubt a Freudian slip

Brew Dad said:

Just curious, what equipment aren't you using anymore? I never did kits, but otherwise took a similar path as yourself (although Robobrew instead of Grainfather), and there isn't much gear that I don't still use.

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It’s mainly the kit I bought when I was doing the mini-mash & extract brews : various sizes of pots for the steeping, sparging and boil. I bought pots that were too small, then upgraded to larger ones. I went through 2 chillers (thinking the second would be an upgrade but it had exactly the same performance). At that point I ran out of room to store it all!!

Adgeo said:

Should I jump straight into AG and not bother with attempting extract?

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AG produces the best beer but it takes some equipment and not everyone can fit in 5 hour brewdays.
So - if you're short of time do extract.
But if you can find the 5 hours go straight to AG. You won't regret it.

I think if you put in a bit of planning and you are a tight fisted Yorkshire man, you can be up and running with all grain for less than £100
I did at Christmas!
Biab bag with handles
Big placky spoon
Boiler tea urn
Metal Hop basket
Thermometer
Big blue storage barrel

I then spent £60 on ingredients and have enough grain, crystal, roasted malts and hops to do 7 or 8 brews

As for time, again if you plan it right...
Last brew I did I was actually working! I put the grain to mash and then jumped on a finance call I knew would last no longer than 20mins. Popped back out and have it a stir and then back in to call my boss about a few things.
Back out for a dunk sparge and bag squeeze and ramped the temp dial up to start the boil. Back in to do a demo of a new tool to the customer and back out before hot break. Bunged first lot of hops it and back in to start my monthly reports and in and out 3 more times for hop additions all whilst running data extracts. then the boil was done.
Put tea on and had an hour's relax and then out to transfer to the fv and clean up whilst wife washed up.

Extract was the best and safest stepping stone for me and everyone still seems to say AG is cheaper, if you have the time, but IMHO can produce more variable results unless you are rigerous.
So we stay mainly the simples route,,,,

I sell most of my beer and Maxi Extract (25kg HLME) is still my to go to method. Consistent results and cost effective @ roughly £10 for 22.7l (+HMRC) + (electric)+(my time)+(sanitisers)

Although if I get fancy, more hops and steeped grain are fun. BIAB is still harder work and takes too much time at the moment. But I will go to that eventually as the by-products and end result are worth the challenge!

Nicks90 said:

whilst wife washed up.

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Now That is careful planning!

You can also do extract with steeped grains for those recipes where extract alone can't match the recipe.

https://www.brewdog.com/lowdown/blog/homebrewdog-winner

(the ris-ky business I sent to them or my king kong spring to mind)

Gulpitdarn said:

I can fully understand the attraction of Extract brewing because of the ease of making them.

What can put people off of All Grain brewing (I think) is the what looks like, the mathematical aspects of it, I mean, working out efficiencies, alcohol percentages, bitterness IBU's and the like. I often look at recipes and groan a little, but I still have a go, and do enjoy All Graining without paying much attention to all that.

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I started out using a spreadsheet called BIABacus (meh), combined with the Beersmith mobile app. Then I splashed out on Beersmith 2 desktop. Now I have a sub for Beersmith 3 gold so I can use the cloud service, that way when I build recipes on my desktop, I can access them from my phone. Et voila, maths taken care of, along with brew day timer etc... You just have to get the equipment profile dialled in properly for the equipment you are using. If you're using something like a Grainfather, or one of the Klarstein clones, it's easier as there are ready made profiles out there. I built my own rig though, so had to build my own profile. Once you have it right though, you tend to find yourself nailing your numbers on brew after brew.

Has style guides too, which really helps when you're building your own recipes.

Oh, and yet again I am posting this whilst brewing... Currently part way through mashing the grain for a porter.... lol

Interesting.... I'm finding that there is more to brewing than just drinking the beer, especially with All Grain brewing, and I've already learnt such a lot. Extract brewing which is very good, I find now just too easy. I suspect the more technical aspects will come along as I delve deeper into the hobby.

I started brewing in the mid 80s when there wasnt a lot of kit's to choose from awful boot's kit's, and geordie bitter. So i graduated to extract brewing following some good Dave Line recipes, then decide to go all grain. Now i have come full circle and do kit's, and the odd partial mash. Kit's have come on leaps, and bound's in quality, so i really dont wanna spend a full day doing AG brew's it's not worth it..

Furrymuff! AG is not everyone's thing, but for many it's a never ending path of discovery. Not done brew kits for a while, but I've got to agree with you, they have come a very long way, and many of the new kit beers do turn out really good.