AG#7 Czech Pilsner (Greg Hughes)

matt76 · Jan 21, 2019

Right then, let's see how wrong I can get this :laugh8:

If you're interested, I found this old post which was very illuminating.....

Basically Greg Hughes Czech Pilsner recipe - pg.90 if you want to play along at home

12L (ish) brew so I've halved the recipe:
2.3kg pilsner malt
200g flaked barley (as is my wont)
80g total of Saaz hops
16L water

Couldn't find Wyeast 2001 Urquell Lager anywhere so in the end went with 2278 Czech Pils.

My 7th brew so I've got the brewing bit sorted now but never done a lager before so this should be entertaining.

I've overshot Hughes OG of 1.048 by a margin courtesy of my bag squeezing and ended up with 1.055 so it should be pokey if nothing else athumb..

Interesting to note how Hughes reckons it'll be ready to drink in 5 weeks (1 week to ferment + 4 weeks conditioning/lagering) when pretty much everything else I've read is in the range of 6-12 weeks for lagering alone! aunsure....

Well, I'm in no rush so we'll see eventually..... seriously, I reckon I'll be brewing AG#10 before this is ready to drink! :laugh8:

Dutto · Jan 22, 2019

Looks okay to me and I agree with the "AG#10" comment.

With a healthy ABV on the cards, bottling and conditioning should make it a fine drink ...

... for the summer!

BeerCat · Jan 22, 2019

I have 2 beers on the go with 2278. 2 weeks fermenting at 10c, 1 week at 20c then cold crash and keg.

matt76 · Jan 22, 2019

BeerCat said:
I have 2 beers on the go with 2278. 2 weeks fermenting at 10c, 1 week at 20c then cold crash and keg.

Ooh interesting, what you brewing?

I understand the initial fermentation at 10degC and then the diacetyl rest at 20degC.....

But bearing in mind I bottle rather than keg, my expectation then was to rack it to a secondary FV and then lager for ages (6-12 weeks?), and then batch prime and bottle (and presumably then condition some more???)

Is this not correct? Should I bottle and then lager?

Dutto · Jan 22, 2019

matt76 said:
.........

I understand the initial fermentation at 10degC and then the diacetyl rest at 20degC.....

But bearing in mind I bottle rather than keg, my expectation then was to rack it to a secondary FV and then lager for ages (6-12 weeks?), and then batch prime and bottle (and presumably then condition some more???)

Is this not correct? Should I bottle and then lager?

Personally, I think you are spot on with lager, prime and then bottle.

Next month, using Saflager S-23 yeast in a Wilko Lager Kit (*) I will:

Ferment at the upper end of the yeast's tolerance (i.e. +/- 18*C) for a week.
Rack the brew into a second FV.
Lager at the lower end of the yeast's tolerance (i.e. +/- 11*C) for about 10 weeks. (Whilst I nip over to France for a holiday.)
Increase the temperature to 18*C for a week when I get back home.
Transfer it to a PB for two weeks carbonation and then sit it on the shelves for a few weeks (waiting for warm weather) before drinking.

(*)
This will break the second of my "New Year's Resolutions", because I vowed not to make any Kits this year; ...

... but as I've used up my grain and will be leaving an empty fridge ......... !! Well, it's a "No-Brainer" really! :hat:

foxbat · Jan 22, 2019

Lager recipe looks good. Google "Brulosophy quick lager" if you prefer drinking to waiting. I tried it last hot summer and I can add my voice to all the others that say it works.

GerritT · Jan 22, 2019

I tried that Pilsner, I have no climate control so it fermented as an ale, turned out a bit dryish at 6%. Very nice indeed!

matt76 · Jan 22, 2019

GerritT said:
I tried that Pilsner, I have no climate control so it fermented as an ale, turned out a bit dryish at 6%. Very nice indeed!

How can I put this..... My temperature control is somewhat..... Well let's just say I have several temperature control zones, all of which are fairly carbon neutral

JonBrew · Jan 22, 2019

matt76 said:
But bearing in mind I bottle rather than keg, my expectation then was to rack it to a secondary FV and then lager for ages (6-12 weeks?), and then batch prime and bottle (and presumably then condition some more???)

Is this not correct? Should I bottle and then lager?

Bulk lagering is generally considered the best way to go. However, if you are going to be true lagering at close to 1 degrees C for that length of time I would recommend adding fresh yeast at bottling (assuming you will be bottling carbonating). If you don't, particularly if you lager the beer for 12 weeks, it will at best take an age to carbonate.

BeerCat · Jan 22, 2019

matt76 said:
Ooh interesting, what you brewing?

I understand the initial fermentation at 10degC and then the diacetyl rest at 20degC.....

But bearing in mind I bottle rather than keg, my expectation then was to rack it to a secondary FV and then lager for ages (6-12 weeks?), and then batch prime and bottle (and presumably then condition some more???)

Is this not correct? Should I bottle and then lager?

Brewing a Czech pale Lager and a German pils with 2278. I had mixed success bottling lager as i don't have anywhere to cold crash loads of bottles for weeks on end or maintain temp when carbing. Gave up and now keg all lagers and bulk condition.
Definitely read up on the brulosophy method as said above.
I found after cold crashing at 0c for a week and adding finings the beer would be clear. After secondary fermentation in the bottle the beer had lost some clarity or have chill haze but they were not lagered again.

Lawrence22 · Jan 22, 2019

I have the same beer in the FV at the moment minus the flaked barley. I'm using MJ M84 Bohemian Lager yeast. I did it before Xmas and lagered it for 4 weeks. It was excellent if a little sweet so in my current batch I upped the bittering hops ever so slightly. Brewed it a week ago today and it's down to 1.025 from 1.054, but it was bloody slow getting started. I hope to be drinking by St Patricks day.

BeerCat · Jan 22, 2019

MJ54 cali lager yeast is a good choice for your first lagers as you can ferment it warm and "does not require extended conditioning". Its clean and it clears really fast.

matt76 · Jan 22, 2019

Couple of useful links I found while googling.....
Worth a read:
https://www.homebrewing.org/How-to-Make-Lager_ep_42-1.html

Palmer on bottling - this is more detailed then in the earlier PDF of his book I have:
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/priming-and-bottling/priming-and-bottling-lager-beer

Basically Palmer is saying:
ferment
diacetyl rest
bottle & prime
carbonate
...and finally then lager

matt76 · Jan 22, 2019

Dutto said:
Personally, I think you are spot on with lager, prime and then bottle.

Thanks for the advice @Dutto athumb..

However, as noted in my last post above, Palmer seems to suggest bottle & prime, carbonate and then lager.

Any particular reason why you'd lager first? Presumably this would make the yeast drop out of suspension so I'd need to add more yeast when I prime & bottle aunsure....

Dutto · Jan 23, 2019

matt76 said:
.........

Any particular reason why you'd lager first? Presumably this would make the yeast drop out of suspension so I'd need to add more yeast when I prime & bottle aunsure....

I don't understand the logic of "lagering" in a bottle as I condition all of my brews for a minimum of two weeks anyway and some of the higher ABV brews can sit on the shelves for over a year.

We nip over to France for up to 12 weeks at a time so it seems a good time to bulk lager a brew; especially in winter when the fridge will easily keep the the temperature low. (I will switch off the Heater in the Brew Fridge.)

By the time we get back from France I will also have an empty 25 litre PB that needs filling and a summer lager will be ideal.

BTW, I have never felt a need to add more yeast. Waiting a few extra days for a brew to carbonate is no big deal and it has always carbonated okay in the past.

matt76 · Jan 23, 2019

Wait, do I understand this right - effectively you're saying:
1. After the diacetyl rest, transfer to secondary and then lager.
2. Once lagering is finished, then you prime and bottle.

Does that even work? Given that lagering is effectively conditioning, is it possible to condition before carbonating?

Or have I misunderstood?

foxbat · Jan 23, 2019

If you bottle condition then you should lager after bottling otherwise you'll have to lager again to drop the trub and yeast produced during secondary fermentation in the bottles.

matt76 · Jan 26, 2019

Minor update:

It's still bubbling away in the FV in the garage where it's around 10-12degC. I'm still struggling with the notion that something can ferment quite happily at this temperature, but there it is right in front of me.

Still haven't decided though whether to bottle after the diacetyl rest and then lager, or transfer to secondary FV for lagering... aunsure....

Nicks90 · Jan 26, 2019

Really interested how this turns out as I fancy having a go at this one for ag#5 and letting it sit till BBQ season starts

matt76 · Jan 26, 2019

Nicks90 said:
Really interested how this turns out as I fancy having a go at this one for ag#5 and letting it sit till BBQ season starts

Do!

Take advantage of the cold weather if you've no temperature control (like me). And as you say, since it takes a while until it's ready to drink if you get on it now it'll be ready for BBQ season athumb..

AG#7 Czech Pilsner (Greg Hughes)

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