Mini keg vs growler vs cannonball / mini corny

F00b4r said:

The Intertap flow control taps as designed to dial down up to 12.3 PSI of pressure in their mechanism, anything beyond that and you will get turbulence.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I ended up buying the (ebay ... knockoff?) cannonball, so I guess I should go for a party tap and some hose (it's going to be used out and about, so I want either a tap direct on the outlet or something portable). Can anyone recommend the best setup? Or would it be better to build a makeshift wooden mount with a short line of hose and the flow control tap?

Or, given that I dont like super carbed up beers anyway, would 12.5psi be sufficient?

Out of the dark farm, malt miller and beer hawk setups in the OP, which if any of these is compatible with a soda stream bottle instead of 16g bulbs? Apologies if this has been answered but I’m struggling to quite get my head around the thread!

radpotato said:

Yeah, that's what I looked at - it seemed like the regulator would be removable (at least, there's some kind of connector between the cap and the CO2) but the tap appeared integrated. Whereas other models have a ball valve connector for the tap.

Click to expand...

The CO2 Pressure Regulator can be dialled down to zero so that no CO2 escapes when changing capsules but, as far as I am aware, the Growler and the Tap stay together until the Growler is empty OR until the pressure is dropped to zero, the Tap and PR assembly are removed and a Pressure Relief Cap is installed in its place.

Ajhutch said:

............. I’m struggling to quite get my head around the thread!

Click to expand...

I want to join that club!

There have been so many improvements over the years that I have come to the conclusion that whatever I buy it will probably be obsolete within the next five years, even if it doesn't wear out before then.

Over the years I have used everything from screw-top pop bottles, capped and flip-top bottles, plastic PB's of various sizes, and 5 litre MK's with a Flexi-Tap and CO2 injection.

Until Dark Farms came up with their Growler system I steered clear of stainless steel on the basis of cost, but I think that I may now have the flexibility that I require; for the next couple of years at least! :thumb:

Actually, looking to Christmas, I may get another two Growlers and another Tap if the 15% offer is still there!

welly3 said:

How long do you find your sodastream lasts? Do you carb with the sodastream bottle as well or just dispense? If so, what do you use for carbing?

Click to expand...

I’ve found soda stream gas lasts enough for a couple of 19 litre batches. Curbing and dispensing.

Ajhutch said:

Out of the dark farm, malt miller and beer hawk setups in the OP, which if any of these is compatible with a soda stream bottle instead of 16g bulbs? Apologies if this has been answered but I’m struggling to quite get my head around the thread!

Click to expand...

This is my Sodastream set up. It can be used with any ball lock keg. So that includes the cannonball and the malt miller keg with the ball lock lid. Dark farm actually have a similar ball lock lid on their website. I use this Sodastream setup with a regular 19L corny keg. The regulator is made by ODL and it has an adaptor screwed into it to take a Sodastream bottle.

Braufather said:

I’ve found soda stream gas lasts enough for a couple of 19 litre batches. Curbing and dispensing.

Click to expand...

Any idea how that compares with other options (16g, s30 cylinders etc)? A tenner per sodastream refill makes that sound a little pricey, no?

Regarding regulators, any recommendations? Given the aim for this to be portable and not heavily used I like the look of this: https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/universal-co2-regulator/, but everyone seems to have bigger dual gauge models so maybe I'm missing something.

radpotato said:

Any idea how that compares with other options (16g, s30 cylinders etc)? A tenner per sodastream refill makes that sound a little pricey, no? .......

Click to expand...

Like almost anything else, the more you buy of the product the less per kilo/litre etc it costs. In the case of CO2 the smaller 8g and 16g capsules are "throw away" so you have to buy the container every time whereas the Sodastream cylinder is re-fillable and therefore per gram comes in cheaper.

From the link you gave, the 16g capsules will cost you 5.5p per gram whereas from this link ...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SODASTREAM-CO2-GAS-Refill-Service-for-425g-60l-Bottle-Cylinder/113154278090?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=51875&meid=bfb8529e70054d7cb0c89c1e357326eb&pid=100623&rk=3&rkt=5&sd=112538472521&itm=113154278090&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

... a Sodastream refill will cost you 2.1p per gram

radpotato said:

.............
Regarding regulators, any recommendations? Given the aim for this to be portable and not heavily used I like the look of this: https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/universal-co2-regulator/, but everyone seems to have bigger dual gauge models so maybe I'm missing something.

Click to expand...

The CO2 regulator looks to be the dogs doodads. With the right adaptors, connectors and tubing it will allow you to maintain pressure on a brew.

We now come to why there are so many "bigger dual gauge models" being used.

Personally, I carbonate my brews using brewing sugar which is introduced after transferring the brew to a PB or Growler and then use the Pressure Regulator to maintain pressure on top of the brew so that:

• I don't have to introduce air (oxygen) on top of the brew.
• Maintain sufficient pressure on top of the brew to drive it up the tube to the Tap.

It really doesn't matter if I run out of CO2 because when I see the pressure dropping I can attach another capsule or Sodastream bottle.

However, many of the Forum Members "force carbonate" their brews by maintaining a high pressure of CO2 in the keg and "forcing" the CO2 into the brew. This means that they don't have to wait for the sugar to develop the CO2 and it also means that there is no residual trub at the bottom of the keg.

The second gauge on the "bigger dual gauge models" show the pressure of CO2 inside the source cylinder so that they can change out the bottle as and when required rather than get caught short and fail to properly carbonate a brew.

Hope this helps. :thumb:

Really helpful, thanks! I spent a while trying to find out how much co2 was in a sodastream canister but failed.

I'd read that its hard to maintain low pressure with cheaper regulators but, as I plan to secondary in the cannonball like you, I think I'll go with the universal regulator linked before.

I tapped a keg last night that I had naturally carbonated using priming sugar. The first 2/3 of a pint was a bit yeasty but cleared up lovely after that. If you don't mind waiting 2 weeks for it to carb up, then save your CO2. Works for me .

Finally got to fill the cannonball today with a neipa. Decided to purge the headspace and failed with two separate co2 bulbs. Both times, by the time I'd screwed the bulb into the regulator I'd lost most of the co2 from the bulb. Is it just a case of "work quickly", or maybe I'm doing something wrong?

radpotato said:

......... I spent a while trying to find out how much co2 was in a sodastream canister but failed.

........

Click to expand...

Apparently there are 60 litres of CO2 in a Sodastream cylinder.

How many pints of beer this will carbonate is a "How long is a piece of string?" type of question. It all depends how "gassy" you want the brew, what temperature you wish to store and serve the brew and whether or not you naturally carbonate with sugar before tapping the brew.

Assuming that there are no leaks on the system, then it will last longest when used at low pressure (10psi to 15psi) to keep pressure on a naturally carbonated brew.

radpotato said:

Finally got to fill the cannonball today with a neipa. Decided to purge the headspace and failed with two separate co2 bulbs. Both times, by the time I'd screwed the bulb into the regulator I'd lost most of the co2 from the bulb. Is it just a case of "work quickly", or maybe I'm doing something wrong?

Click to expand...

"Is there a seal inside that Regulator?" It's possible that the sealing rubber up inside the Regulator has been dislodged or it is is damaged or it is perished. In either event the CO2 will escape before it enters the cannonball.

"Did you try to do it too slowly?" If so, the cap may be pierced before the capsule is sealed properly. Some Regulators seal at the very and of the capsule and others seal on the "shoulders" of the capsule. Again, the gas escapes before it can enter the cannonball.

"Did you leave the Regulator open?" If the Regulator is set to deliver a high pressure of C)2 then it will do just that and empty the CO2 capsule. At the same time, the excess CO2 will blow-off via the pressure release valve.

"Is the pressure relief valve on the cannonball wide open?" It may have been mis-fitted (mea culpa on a 10 litre PB) or the sealing element may have perished or be defective or be jammed open.

I'm sure there are other reasons but it's most likely to be one of the above! :thumb:

Here's some of today's work.





PS

Why purge the headspace? If you are naturally carbonating the brew a bit of oxygen won't do any harm!

Hi,

Thanks for the help. I tried again tonight (after contacting maltmiller to see if there were specific instructions for the regulator). It seems that, with the valve open then all is good, but if I try to shut the valve then I get a leak out of a small hole just below the knob adjuster of the regulator. Pretty sure this means the regulator is defective (and makes it bloody hard to connect up as the valve being open is too high pressure to deliver to the keg immediately and with the valve shut it leaks!).

Re. sodastream, I'd read 60L, but no idea why I didn't think to convert that to mass. Assuming 24L / mole at room temperature (and assuming sodastream quote for room temp) then that means 2.5 moles of Co2, which is 110g (Co2 molar mass of 44g). So... doesn't that invalidate the claim of sodastream being cheaper, as i can get 10 x 12g cartidges for the same price (unless, of course, the leaking little things lose so much more gas hooking them up that they're much less than 12g when connected).

I purged the headspace because it's a NEIPA with 500g of hops in the 20L batch, so wanted to reduce any O2.

radpotato said:

Thanks for the info. I ended up buying the (ebay ... knockoff?) cannonball, so I guess I should go for a party tap and some hose (it's going to be used out and about, so I want either a tap direct on the outlet or something portable). Can anyone recommend the best setup? Or would it be better to build a makeshift wooden mount with a short line of hose and the flow control tap?

Or, given that I dont like super carbed up beers anyway, would 12.5psi be sufficient?

Click to expand...

How are you getting on with the eBay knockoff? It's a good price, looking at getting either this or dark farm or maltmiller 5 litre kegs.

Just wanting options for portability and ability to free up 19 litre corny kegs when they are getting low.

I have one and so far I'm very pleased. Perfect for smaller experimental batches and turbo ciders. Currently drinking a Blackberry Saison from it.




In my opinion the biggest advantage of this style over the growlers is that it's a corny style lid so you can get your hand in to clean it all out properly.

Slight thread revival but I just noticed this on eBay. It's an extended cannonball up to 10L.

Looks quite the same, and may still fit in at least my fridge, though the stout I've been making is quite happy at "cold corner of house" temp!