Grainfather mash stirring

Harbey · Mar 18, 2019

Having done about 6-7 brews now on my GF, I was a bit disappointed with my efficiency and what appeared to be pretty stuck mashes and sparges. This weekend I took a different approach and gave the grains a good stir after 10 mins of mashing and again after about half an hour. What a difference! Efficiency through the roof, everything draining nice and smoothly (not quickly, just evenly), and the clearest wort I've had to date. This seems to go against all the instructions and demo videos out there but I'll certainly be employing it in future brews. Just wondering if anyone else has tried this or has any suggestions as to why I'm having to do it in the first place? I do use a handful or so of oat husks to try to loosen up my grains and I have them crushed when I buy them from Malt Miller (they don't appear too fine).

jceg316 · Mar 18, 2019

I found I had stuck/slow sparges when my crush was too fine. I think my mill is set to 1.28mm and that seemed to fix the problem. I also mash for 90 mins which recirculates the wort for longer meaning it's clearer and the efficiency is higher.

Mike Smith · Mar 19, 2019

Stir after 20 mins and after 40 mins

foxy · Mar 19, 2019

Mike Smith said:
Stir after 20 mins and after 40 mins

Why?

Keruso · Mar 19, 2019

Harbey said:
Having done about 6-7 brews now on my GF, I was a bit disappointed with my efficiency and what appeared to be pretty stuck mashes and sparges. This weekend I took a different approach and gave the grains a good stir after 10 mins of mashing and again after about half an hour. What a difference! Efficiency through the roof, everything draining nice and smoothly (not quickly, just evenly), and the clearest wort I've had to date. This seems to go against all the instructions and demo videos out there but I'll certainly be employing it in future brews. Just wondering if anyone else has tried this or has any suggestions as to why I'm having to do it in the first place? I do use a handful or so of oat husks to try to loosen up my grains and I have them crushed when I buy them from Malt Miller (they don't appear too fine).

Hi I get my grain from MaltMiller too, grain crush absolutely fine, but you do get flour in the mix which I guess is just part of the milling process. It's the crush size and flour in particular that causes the mash and sparge to be real sticky, causing the wort to flow over the overflow because it can't get through the grain and therefore doesn't filter to clear. Stirring helps but I found it a bit of a pain having to lift off the top plate and risk of dislodging the bottom when stirring. Also it doesn't take long to go sticky again.

I tried a few experiments over the last few brews, I order an extra kilo of base malt, and sieve out around 500G of flour, adding the extra grain to compensate for the flour (there's more sugar in the flour so you need to add more grain rather than the same weight of flour removed) the result is incredible, no need to stir and you can leave the valve wide open, nothing flows over the overflow so a crystal clear wort. I also found there's far less burnt on material after the boil. Certain malts like wheat are much stickier so I do use hulls depending on what malt i'm using. BTW David Heath of youtube fame, and now a forum member stirs his !!

Harbey · Mar 19, 2019

Well, I had no intention of buying a mill but given the info I might do so in the future. I'm going to carry on having an experimental stir for a while tho. Initially, I don't put the top plate on now until my first stir. I find the bloody lid and the recirculation arm more of a faff tho.

jceg316 · Mar 19, 2019

I remember when I first got my Grainfather I didn't have mill and got my grains pre crushed from GEB. When I used the water calculations on the Grainfather app my pump would struggle; the mash was too thick basically. I would have to add in an extra litre of water and everything would be fine.

Mike Smith · Mar 19, 2019

foxy said:
Why?

Because everyone has they own method and the OP asked. It wasn’t an instruction! It’s how I do it. My father in law taught me and that’s how he does it and he gets brilliant efficiency.

Harbey · Mar 19, 2019

jceg316 said:
I remember when I first got my Grainfather I didn't have mill and got my grains pre crushed from GEB. When I used the water calculations on the Grainfather app my pump would struggle; the mash was too thick basically. I would have to add in an extra litre of water and everything would be fine.

Yes, I can definitely end up with a rather thick porridge if following the recommended volumes. Not tried adding more than about a litre extra though. Might give that a go next brew day (hopefully this weekend).

Slid · Mar 19, 2019

Harbey said:
Having done about 6-7 brews now on my GF, I was a bit disappointed with my efficiency and what appeared to be pretty stuck mashes and sparges. This weekend I took a different approach and gave the grains a good stir after 10 mins of mashing and again after about half an hour. What a difference! Efficiency through the roof, everything draining nice and smoothly (not quickly, just evenly), and the clearest wort I've had to date. This seems to go against all the instructions and demo videos out there but I'll certainly be employing it in future brews. Just wondering if anyone else has tried this or has any suggestions as to why I'm having to do it in the first place? I do use a handful or so of oat husks to try to loosen up my grains and I have them crushed when I buy them from Malt Miller (they don't appear too fine).

I eventually learned about doing a slow mash in and some extra attention before attaching the recirc arm, then doing a big stir after 30 mins. Made a lot of difference to mash and sparge.

foxy · Mar 19, 2019

The more fluid state of the mash the better the conversion, if you can manage a no sparge on a grainfather you could give that a try, I use about 34 litres of water to around 5 kilo of grain.

Harbey · Mar 19, 2019

foxy said:
The more fluid state of the mash the better the conversion, if you can manage a no sparge on a grainfather you could give that a try, I use about 34 litres of water to around 5 kilo of grain.

Interesting alternative. So why are we encouraged to use such low volumes of water by the manufacturers and most users? I'm doing quite a few brews at the mo that have identical grain bills, just changing hops. Could make for some interesting comparisons.

foxy · Mar 19, 2019

Harbey said:
Interesting alternative. So why are we encouraged to use such low volumes of water by the manufacturers and most users? I'm doing quite a few brews at the mo that have identical grain bills, just changing hops. Could make for some interesting comparisons.

I get around 86% efficiency, with full volume mash even though you will get better conversion because there is no sparge some of the sugar gets left behind so the efficiency drops to between 65 to 70% so more grain is added to compensate. Have a read up on 'no sparge' method.

Ghillie · Mar 19, 2019

I use a 35L Robobrew and usually brew with 5-6kg of grain.

Initially I used calcs, now I always just mash with 18-20L and sparge to pre-boil. I’m all for a thin mash as it’s easier to dough in and allows for better flow.

The Baron · Mar 19, 2019

Ghillie said:
I use a 35L Robobrew and usually brew with 5-6kg of grain.

Initially I used calcs, now I always just mash with 18-20L and sparge to pre-boil. I’m all for a thin mash as it’s easier to dough in and allows for better flow.

exactly what I do 18/20 litres and sparge to 28 litres for boil

Ghillie · Mar 20, 2019

the baron said:
exactly what I do 18/20 litres and sparge to 28 litres for boil

It just makes sense doesn't it?

Now I'm kegging everything, I find myself sparging to 26L for ~22L post boil volume. Means I fill a corny with just a fraction of beer left above the trub.

You finding boil off losses of around 4L for 60 minutes also?

The Baron · Mar 20, 2019

I lose between 4 /5 litres on a 28 ltrs boil so i end up with approx 23 ltrs. Less chance of a stuck mash as well I struggle to see why most manufactures of single vessel systems quote such low mash volumes it literally must be like porridge

Ghillie · Mar 20, 2019

Really hard to dough in as well!

Zephyr259 · Mar 21, 2019

I haven't stirred for a while and only tend to do it if my recirc is acting up. I did stir my last batch but that was more to ensure a treatement to adjust the pH was thoroughly mixed in. Tend to get mash efficiency of mid 80s and BH mid to high 70s on 15 L batches, 23L batches bump those up by about 5% each.

I also use a slightly thicker mash with 2.3 L/kg vs 2.7 L/kg, this is because I've found better efficiency when the sparge volume is close to the mash volume or higher than it and the GF blog suggested the thicker mash for high OG beers a while back. I do it on moderate OG's too as I get lower sparge volumes due to smaller batches.

Curious to try a 90 min mash, I've done a few step mashes recently and get this beautiful clear wort, back to single rest and it only just clears as I'm heating up to mash out, maybe it's the protein rests or maybe it's just the extra time.

jceg316 · Mar 21, 2019

Zephyr259 said:
I've done a few step mashes recently and get this beautiful clear wort

I've considered doing step mashes but I'm yet to find a recipe which requires it, I don't use them in my own recipes (as I'm not sure what temps and why), and when I look into it I come across a lot which says British malts are highly modified to step mashes aren't necessary. What's on paper is often different to reality, do you find any other improvements with step mashes?

Grainfather mash stirring

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