Views on Shorter Mash and Shorter Boil

The Baron · Mar 27, 2019

Hi I have just done 3 brews in the last week and was short of time so have done 45 min Mashes and 45 min Boils. Do not seem to be detrimental as only lost a point or 2 at the most but until the beers are ready I will not have a full result, has anybody done this before and what were the results?

dad_of_jon · Mar 27, 2019

45 minute boil? - I only boil for 20 mins, before my father would come home and whip me to sleep in the rolled up newspaper I live in :laugh8:

The Baron · Mar 27, 2019

Whatever your on i'll have a pint D of J acheers.

Clint · Mar 27, 2019

Hmmm. with interest I watched the Dave Heath video on no boil beers...I might go one futher...eat a load of crushed malt washed down with a sachet of yeast,sit somewhere warm for a fortnight...

JonBrew · Mar 27, 2019

More often than not I do a 30 min mash and boil and I've been very happy with the results.

Banbeer · Mar 27, 2019

Clint said:
Hmmm. with interest I watched the Dave Heath video on no boil beers...I might go one further...eat a load of crushed malt washed down with a sachet of yeast,sit somewhere warm for a fortnight...

What no hops ? or are you dry hopping? and using a spoon to weigh them down acheers.

chrissyr63 · Mar 27, 2019

I was just worried about where Clint put the airlock!

Clint · Mar 27, 2019

A cup of hop tea...

simon12 · Mar 28, 2019

Never tried it but my understanding is the mash will convert the starch in around 15-20 mins as long as the PH is in where it should be, an hour is good if your not checking this or doing water treatment and also breaks down the sugars to be more fermentable, so a short mash at the correct ph has a similar effect as a hotter mash. As for boil you need 10-15 mins to boil of dms and 60-90 mins came from commercial breweries as the most effective cost ratio of hops needed for bitterness vs energy to boil cost but there could be more to it.

An Ankoù · Mar 28, 2019

I had understood a 60 minutes minimum was required for the hot break, but maybe it happens before then. It would be interesting to know your results when the beer's in the glass.

Stephenj · Mar 28, 2019

There is this from brulosophy on mash times.

http://brulosophy.com/2014/09/01/does-mash-length-matter-exbeeriment-results/

Cwrw666 · Mar 28, 2019

An Ankoù said:
I had understood a 60 minutes minimum was required for the hot break, but maybe it happens before then. It would be interesting to know your results when the beer's in the glass.

As I understand it the hot break actually occurs just before the wort comes to the boil - that thick foam you get just before the brew starts boiling, after which the boil folds the proteins down into the beer. In jam making you have to skim this stuff off before the boil and if you do the same with your beer you get hardly any trub apart from hops left in the bottom of your boiler. I skim it off with beers that are only lightly hopped as the hot break gunk otherwise clogs up the filter. Not a problem for me with heavily hopped beers.

The Baron · Mar 28, 2019

Thanks chaps it was as I thought just wanted some further advice and the experience of brewers that have done it. I used to skim off the hot break but never bothered for quite a long time but if I am to go with shorter mash and boil I think I will revert back to this. I will report back in a few weeks once the beers are kegged

keat64 · Mar 28, 2019

For the boil you only need to break down the protiens and add bitterness.
The protiens break down after a few minutes.
So it's the bitterness your'e intersted in.

Clint · Mar 28, 2019

I'm quite amazed at all the similar but different responses.

MyQul · Mar 28, 2019

I've done loads of 30min mash/30min boil and cant tell the difference between longer boil/mash

Sadfield · Mar 28, 2019

keat64 said:
For the boil you only need to break down the protiens and add bitterness.
The protiens break down after a few minutes.
So it's the bitterness your'e intersted in.

That's not entirely true. The boil is more complex than that.

https://www.morebeer.com/articles/how_to_boil_wort

Some brews won't be affected too much by short boils, other brews will benefit from longer boils. Same with the mash.

Austin · Mar 28, 2019

Sadfield said:
That's not entirely true. The boil is more complex than that.

https://www.morebeer.com/articles/how_to_boil_wort

Some brews won't be affected too much by short boils, other brews will benefit from longer boils. Same with the mash.

Thanks for a superb article. Much as I thought, boiling sugars is a complex science, summed up nicely as "Maillard reactions are inevitable and largely desirable, and the carryover of melanoidins to the fermentor in their reduced form is crucial to long-term beer stability."
It's also made me think about reducing the amount of hot break i end up tipping into my fermenter. Does anyone know what effect that has?

Drunkula · Mar 28, 2019

Austin said:
It's also made me think about reducing the amount of hot break i end up tipping into my fermenter. Does anyone know what effect that has?

http://brulosophy.com/2015/03/22/the-impact-of-kettle-trub-part-2-exbeeriment-results/

"The lack of statistical significance in this xBmt supports previous findings, as well as the anecdotal reports of myriad homebrewers, that higher amounts of kettle trub making it to the fermentor do not necessarily impact beer in a detrimental way, as many were taught to believe. "

I sometimes (a lot) can be bothered settling it and shove the whole lot in the fermenter. The only times I can say it's anything near a problem is if there's a ton of flour and I haven't attempted a vorlauf and it just won't settle fully at the bottom and you have to stop syphoning before you hit it so you get a few extra litres of waste. I can't ever see that being a problem for normal brewing.

foxy · Mar 28, 2019

There are no short cuts, if I am pushed for time I will do a 90 minute mash the night before and follow up with a 90 minute boil. Leave the trub behind in the kettle to get good clean wort into the fermenter.
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/how_to_boil_wort

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