Foaming after opening

DeadlyFeet · May 10, 2019

Hi All

So my second attempt at a neipa. And the same result. Once I open the bottle all it does is foam furiously. Similar to what happens when you put mentos in a coke bottle. All my other brews have turned out really well, just not the 2 neipa's I have attempted. Wondering what I am doing wrong. The main difference between the neipa brew and others is that the final gravity was way off. Fg was 1.022, nowhere near the 1.010 I was expecting.
Has anyone had this before?

GerritT · May 10, 2019

Yup, had to redo some bits of the kitchen ceiling, discarded the rest of the batch into the garden.

marshbrewer · May 10, 2019

DeadlyFeet said:
The main difference between the neipa brew and others is that the final gravity was way off. Fg was 1.022, nowhere near the 1.010 I was expecting.

I don't want to state the obvious, but it sounds to me like it's continued to ferment in the bottle, which is why it's over carbonated, suggesting it hadn't finished. As to why only your NEIPAs did this, I've no idea.

DeadlyFeet · May 10, 2019

Thinking it's either over carbonation or an infection of some sort.

Argentum · May 10, 2019

It could also be due to insufficient calcium in the mash water. Gushers are known to result as a consequence of this.

An Ankoù · May 10, 2019

DeadlyFeet said:
The main difference between the neipa brew and others is that the final gravity was way off. Fg was 1.022, nowhere near the 1.010 I was expecting.

Hang on guys and gals, if you bottle at this gravity you've got to expect trouble regardless of gusher bugs and mineral deficiency issues (which may, indeed, be present). Deadly was expecting an FG of 1010 and bottled, twice, at 1022.
DeadlyFeet, you've got to get that FG down by at least 10 points. Either rouse the yeast and warm up the secondary FV a bit, or add more yeast and a bit of fermentable sugar, or just wait. But unless you're bottling something with an OG of 1100 that's been hanging around for months, 1022 is just too high.

DeadlyFeet · May 11, 2019

Thanks for the advice all. What is an acceptable length of time for fermentation? So next time, if after 2 weeks the FG isn't what I expect how long do I wait before introducing more yeast and fermentable sugar?

An Ankoù · May 11, 2019

DeadlyFeet said:
Thanks for the advice all. What is an acceptable length of time for fermentation? So next time, if after 2 weeks the FG isn't what I expect how long do I wait before introducing more yeast and fermentable sugar?

I would say that if the gravity is stable for three days max then you need to take remedial action. Some saison yeasts stop and start, but I doubt you've put Belle Saison in an NEIPA!

DeadlyFeet · May 11, 2019

Funnily enough, I have just got to the fermentation chapter in Palmers book. Good learning experience for next time. athumb..

matt76 · May 11, 2019

An Ankoù said:
Hang on guys and gals, if you bottle at this gravity you've got to expect trouble regardless of gusher bugs and mineral deficiency issues (which may, indeed, be present). Deadly was expecting an FG of 1010 and bottled, twice, at 1022.
DeadlyFeet, you've got to get that FG down by at least 10 points. Either rouse the yeast and warm up the secondary FV a bit, or add more yeast and a bit of fermentable sugar, or just wait. But unless you're bottling something with an OG of 1100 that's been hanging around for months, 1022 is just too high.

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

Think I've got the same problem - can anyone help?

I started writing a long post speculating about contamination at bottling but maybe this is my problem.....

I had first tasting of a bitter last night but all 3 bottles I tried foamed up through the neck - not a gusher but I think it stirred up all the yeast making it cloudy and tasting wrong.

My process throughout was same as anyways so it should be ok in theory

But looking back at my notes I see OG 1.046, FG 1.014, attenuation 69% (Wyeast 1275, 2nd or 3rd gen, harvested and grown in starter), mashed at 67degC.

It had been in the FV for 3 weeks and I assumed it was done - but maybe not???

Anything I can do to fix it? It's in 500ml glad bottles - can I simply uncap and recap them and let the sediment settle out? It tasted great at bottling, would be a shame to lose it.

Cheers

Matt

Sandimas · May 11, 2019

I occasionally get foaming bottles, some have been infected but many have not been.

After 8 years of brewing I think I'm finally learning that all yeasts are different and the 2+2+2 rule is only a guide. Some yeasts seem to have a really long tail-off and bottling at the 2-week point can be too early. I'm bottling today (Day21) after realising that the ale I was going to bottle last weekend on Day14 was still going. I bottled a Wheat at Day21 previously and that was too early.

Moral of the story - make sure the beer has absolutely finished fermenting before bottling. And as someone said above, some brews stall and then get going again - if in doubt leave it in the FV a bit longer.

Pavros · May 11, 2019

I used to bottle after 2 weeks but now leave it longer and always wait until I have 3 hydrometer readings the same over 3 days. (I mainly brew kits and have no real temperature control but the principle is the same for ag).

Current brew was 1.014 after 2 1/2 weeks so I dry hopped. 4 days later it's now at 1.011 so the hop pellets obviously roused something. If I'd bottled instead of dry hopping, I would probably have gushers now. Patience and make sure it's finished fermenting.

An Ankoù · May 11, 2019

matt76 said:
AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

Think I've got the same problem - can anyone help?

I started writing a long post speculating about contamination at bottling but maybe this is my problem.....

I had first tasting of a bitter last night but all 3 bottles I tried foamed up through the neck - not a gusher but I think it stirred up all the yeast making it cloudy and tasting wrong.

My process throughout was same as anyways so it should be ok in theory

But looking back at my notes I see OG 1.046, FG 1.014, attenuation 69% (Wyeast 1275, 2nd or 3rd gen, harvested and grown in starter), mashed at 67degC.

It had been in the FV for 3 weeks and I assumed it was done - but maybe not???

Anything I can do to fix it? It's in 500ml glad bottles - can I simply uncap and recap them and let the sediment settle out? It tasted great at bottling, would be a shame to lose it.

Cheers

Matt

Wyeast Thames Valley claim attennuation of 72-75%, but a high mash temperature could lessen that. You could lift the caps gently without removing them, until they start hissing, leave the bottles overnight in the sink or a bowl and then cramp the same lids down again. I've done it and it works fine. My problem was not with bottling too early, but dry hopping loose with pellet hops. I wasn't too bothered about getting hop debris in the bottle and on removing the cap the bits would form nucleation points for the dissolved gas causing all the bottoms to stir up into an over-foaming beer. I'm more careful now and I always put my dry hops in a fine-meshed bag and try to use whole leave whenever I can.

matt76 · May 11, 2019

An Ankoù said:
Wyeast Thames Valley claim attennuation of 72-75%, but a high mash temperature could lessen that. You could lift the caps gently without removing them, until they start hissing, leave the bottles overnight in the sink or a bowl and then cramp the same lids down again. I've done it and it works fine. My problem was not with bottling too early, but dry hopping loose with pellet hops. I wasn't too bothered about getting hop debris in the bottle and on removing the cap the bits would form nucleation points for the dissolved gas causing all the bottoms to stir up into an over-foaming beer. I'm more careful now and I always put my dry hops in a fine-meshed bag and try to use whole leave whenever I can.

Thanks mate, yeah, you see my problem with the attenuation - it wasn't obviously not-finished. It was in the zone for probably done especially after 3 weeks in the FV but in hindsight maybe wasn't quite there.

chewie · May 11, 2019

matt76 said:
Thanks mate, yeah, you see my problem with the attenuation - it wasn't obviously not-finished. It was in the zone for probably done especially after 3 weeks in the FV but in hindsight maybe wasn't quite there.

The duration's that people talk about on here are a guideline only, do not assume a ferment has finished just because it has been in a FV for 2 or 3 weeks (or longer) there are other variables at play like yeast quality, temp, oxygenation etc. Starting gravity and the expected target gravity are what you need to determine if it has finished, time or airlock activity is not an accurate measurement.

matt76 · May 11, 2019

chewie said:
The duration's that people talk about on here are a guideline only, do not assume a ferment has finished just because it has been in a FV for 2 or 3 weeks (or longer) there are other variables at play like yeast quality, temp, oxygenation etc. Starting gravity and the expected target gravity are what you need to determine if it has finished, time or airlock activity is not an accurate measurement.

Thank you, yes agreed, and in hindsight you're right.

The tricky thing in my case is that, unlike the OP, one could very reasonably say this brew had finished. As I mentioned before I've had a number of successful brews now, all using exactly the same method.

Just looking only at the other brews where I've used Wyeast 1275, the FG has been as low as 1.008 (mashed at 62degC) and as high as 1.019 (mashed at 70degC).

So perhaps you can see why I would assume a brew mashed at 67degC and is steady at 1.014 after 3 weeks had finished. Honestly, what would anyone else think under these circumstances.

In hindsight the mistake was probably yeast related - this is the only time I've used harvested 1275, in my earlier brews I used a fresh packet.

Meh..... You live and learn athumb..

DeadlyFeet · May 11, 2019

Sorry for the noob question, but Is the FG the only way to ensure fermentation is finished?

Argentum · May 11, 2019

DeadlyFeet said:
Sorry for the noob question, but Is the FG the only way to ensure fermentation is finished?

Good sanitation practice also comes into play. If a wild yeast or bacteria gets inside the bottle and kicks into activity down the road at some juncture it can ferment the beer to where gushers (or worse) are the result.

GerritT · May 11, 2019

DeadlyFeet said:
Sorry for the noob question, but Is the FG the only way to ensure fermentation is finished?

Yes, 3 days in a row the same FG means fermentation is done. But my brews are mostly done after 2 weeks.

The Baron · May 11, 2019

An Ankoù said:
Hang on guys and gals, if you bottle at this gravity you've got to expect trouble regardless of gusher bugs and mineral deficiency issues (which may, indeed, be present). Deadly was expecting an FG of 1010 and bottled, twice, at 1022.
DeadlyFeet, you've got to get that FG down by at least 10 points. Either rouse the yeast and warm up the secondary FV a bit, or add more yeast and a bit of fermentable sugar, or just wait. But unless you're bottling something with an OG of 1100 that's been hanging around for months, 1022 is just too high.

I totally agree with AA on this people start looking for issues that may not be present it is as simple as bottling with too high a FG as regards the not fermenting out ( which just looks like it has slowed more than normal) is it possible that you are brewing your NEIPA's to higher starting gravity than other brews or using a lower attenuating yeast and the yeast is struggling to ferment out at the normal speed and taking longer and possibly stalling just a thought

Foaming after opening

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