Lager malt & hops + ale yeast?

matt76 · May 14, 2019

Just wondering, given the faff of lagering, temp control etc. when you make a lager, what would happen if you used lager malt and hops but used a fairly neutral ale yeast and fermented at ale temperatures?

Could it work or is even a neutral ale yeast to esterey for the clean taste of lager?

(The alternative I suppose of course is to brew a golden ale or similar)

Cheers,

Matt athumb..

Ghillie · May 14, 2019

It does work!

Ferment on the colder side of the yeast range, if you use a brute like US-05 or Nottingham Ale you can get pretty low anyway.

If you were to do this, it would be a good idea to try and make the beer as crisp as possible. Two easy options for this would be a low mash temperature to give a more fermentable wort. This will give you a dryer finish on the palette; typical of a lager. The other option is a mash acid addition to give you a low pH. ~5.2 ideally. That will help increase the acidity of the end product and add to the overall dryness.

Use a combination of the two techniques and you could make a very nice pseudo lager that would go down well on a hot day! Don't use those techniques and you still might end up with a great beer!

Sadfield · May 14, 2019

You'd end up with a clean ale. In essence a Kolsch, although without the cold conditioning "Lagering" even that would be stretching the description.

You'd still get a very clean beer, even cleaner and crisper if you added a good amount of flaked rice.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/amp/rOqc2p417q

Clint · May 14, 2019

Yes. Done this...works well.

Argentum · May 14, 2019

Actually Fermentis W-34/70 lager yeast is still lager clean at ale fermentation temperatures.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/

http://brulosophy.com/2017/03/09/ye...us-05-vs-saflager-w-3470-exbeeriment-results/

Alternatively, White Labs WLP029 or Fermentis K-97 will give you quite lager like cleanness at ale fermentation temperatures.

matt76 · May 14, 2019

Thanks all for the advice, much appreciated athumb..

One final question, anyone happen to know offhand any suitable Wyeast in addition to the yeasts mentioned above?

(I can Google for equivalents if not, or just for once I could even use a different brand of yeast!)

The Baron · May 14, 2019

Try This Matt, use lager malt to the amount you want for your OG add 2 x 250gram packs of microwave/quick rice from Aldi at about 45p plus 250grams of cornflakes with a kolsch or cali common yeast (I use Crossmyloof)and ferment a little cooler than a ordinary ale yeast say 18c approx. This will produce a clean pseudo lager
Ps use noble hops so you get that lager taste something like saaz or hersbrucker etc
Best kegged as if you bottle the yeast I have suggested is very good but not the best at flocculation so needs to be poured carefully from the bottle

foxbat · May 14, 2019

Or you could use a lager yeast that doesn't mind being fermented at ale temperatures and seemingly produces the same results as when fermented cold.

GerritT · May 14, 2019

I think as long as you don't kill or stress the yeast too much, the result will be quite drinkable.

matt76 · May 14, 2019

the baron said:
Try This Matt, use lager malt to the amount you want for your OG add 2 x 250gram packs of microwave/quick rice from Aldi at about 45p plus 250grams of cornflakes with a kolsch or cali common yeast (I use Crossmyloof)and ferment a little cooler than a ordinary ale yeast say 18c approx. This will produce a clean pseudo lager
Ps use noble hops so you get that lager taste something like saaz or hersbrucker etc
Best kegged as if you bottle the yeast I have suggested is very good but not the best at flocculation so needs to be poured carefully from the bottle

Interesting - i take it the rice and cornflakes are giving you a very lagery lager, as opposed to say a Czech pils or Oktoberfest style?

Argentum · May 14, 2019

foxbat said:
Or you could use a lager yeast that doesn't mind being fermented at ale temperatures and seemingly produces the same results as when fermented cold.

One reason why WLP800 doesn't mind being fermented at ale temperatures is that recent genetic studies have proven it to have been an ale strain all along. It is a member of the Saccharomyces Cerevisiae family. Close to WY2565 in genetics.

matt76 · May 14, 2019

Thanks all;

After a quick look I might be inclined actually to go for something like WY2124 Bohemian Lager or most likely WY2112 California Lager, or even just WY1272 American Ale II (which I happen to be using at the moment so have the opportunity to harvest).

(by comparison the blurb about WY2565 Kolsch makes me think getting it to clear might be a pain)

Cheers,

Matt

MrRook · May 14, 2019

Wyeast pacman yeast makes a nice pseudo lager. I made a pilsner with it at 70f that got decent scores in a competition with no mention of it being non-lager like.

Zephyr259 · May 15, 2019

I used WY 2124 Bohemian Lager last year to make a bock and a helles, it's a pretty good strain and is meant to be able to ferment warmer according to Wyeast. I'm also playing about with fermenting Voss kveik on the cooler side, for it, still 25c on this test. But it's a California Common I've brewed so it has some lee-way anyway, trying a maibock next.

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