My beers keep getting infected

foxy said:

https://seafood.oregonstate.edu/sit...n-food-processing-and-handling-operations.pdf
There are loads of papers like this, one just has to look. (Acid-Anionic sanitisers)
It should only be common sense, if Star San was a full on fungacide it would be of no use to brewers.

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Agree, there are more efficient fungicides, but low activity isn't no activity. Factors such as microbial load affect this, and why rereading @dad_of_jon great post may help.

Great news that you seem to have found the issue. Got me a bit paranoid now though regarding what might be lurking in my GF pump. Do you usually use a cleaning product on the GF and how much cleaning does it get per brew? Have you ever had an issue with the filter coming off (or forgetting to put it on as I have nearly done on several occasions)? And how long have you had the GF/how many brews have you done?

BeerCat said:

When my pump broke I took it apart and it was spotless but I use a bag as well.

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I do get a lot of grains into the boil meaning they are being recirculated through my pipe and, as I learnt yesterday, stuck there. Do you crush your own grains? If so what setting is your mill on?

Harbey said:

Great news that you seem to have found the issue. Got me a bit paranoid now though regarding what might be lurking in my GF pump. Do you usually use a cleaning product on the GF and how much cleaning does it get per brew? Have you ever had an issue with the filter coming off (or forgetting to put it on as I have nearly done on several occasions)? And how long have you had the GF/how many brews have you done?

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I have tried the grainfather cleaner but found it made no difference. I usually clean everything with soap and a sponge in my bath, and use the shower hose to blast into the pump. I didn't realise there'd be so many bits of grain stuck there though and that it would require serious cleaning.

I have had issues of the filter coming off, but it's a rare occurrence luckily. Maybe all these grains got stuck from those few times? I've had my GF probably a year and a half, never taken it apart for a thorough cleaning like this before.

Sorry I should of made it clear I don't have a GF. I don't crush my own grain but my system works with normal or fine crush.
David Heath puts a tea strainer over the return pipe to stop grain clogging the pump.

I usually hold a hose pipe on the top outlet of th recirc pipe and back flush the pump and any grain is pushed back into the mash/boil kettle. you can watch it all come out and that has always sufficed for me

BeerCat said:

David Heath puts a tea strainer over the return pipe to stop grain clogging the pump.

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I do this as well, I think a lot of grains must come through the false bottom.

the baron said:

I usually hold a hose pipe on the top outlet of th recirc pipe and back flush the pump and any grain is pushed back into the mash/boil kettle. you can watch it all come out and that has always sufficed for me

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I do this as well after very brew. Perhaps mine is lined with glue or something.

jceg316 said:

I do this as well, I think a lot of grains must come through the false bottom.


I do this as well after very brew. Perhaps mine is lined with glue or something.

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Perhaps I best inspect the interior of my pump too then

strange-steve said:

You know what, you're right. I forgot that even with Gunge no longer with us there's still a surprisingly large anti-science contingent on this forum, so to those members I apologise.

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Steve,
I didn't mean to imply I was anti-science, I enjoy reading those threads as well. I'm just not sure how the thread side-track was helping jceg find an answer to his problem.
It seemed like there were 2 threads combined here.

Pavros said:

Steve,
I didn't mean to imply I was anti-science, I enjoy reading those threads as well. I'm just not sure how the thread side-track was helping jceg find an answer to his problem.
It seemed like there were 2 threads combined here.

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I know, ignore my flippant comment

There are some questions I still have unanswered. Granted "my beers keep getting infected" is quite a wide topic so I'll raise each question as its own thread.

the baron said:

Perhaps I best inspect the interior of my pump too then

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I think it depends on the impeller design. I had a black plastic pump with minute holes in it the water was forced through and it blocked at the drop of your hat. To clean it involved poking wire into it and imho should not be sold as suitable for brewing. The ones MM sell have a wide spacing and anything that gets into it comes straight out.
Taps are another matter though. I have no idea how i have not had problems with my raw beers as upon taking it apart it was black inside. Not a fun job and wasted a good hour.

I always clean with PBW and rinse dry. then starsan spry on the day I spray everything liberally through out the brew including my hands. Never had an infection so are. On Grainfather it is important to check there is noting on the seals, grain sometimes get stuck there but you can clean it. I PBW and rinse and dry the day before brew day, takes an hour or so but I do not mind as I want to make sure. Cleaning is the most important part of a brew, not worth short cutting, the rest is easy enough. Run the pbw through the pump and the cooler to. same cold water to rinse it out. And i agree hot wort through cooler too before connecting the cold water supply

For cleaning my SVB's after I have finished with the kettle, wash out with cold water, put about 5 litres of cold water in the kettle circulate for 10 minutes, take the temperature up to 80 C circulate with an alkaline cleaner S/percarbonate or perborate added for 15-20 minutes. Drain thoroughly till dry, (microorganisms and wild yeast will thrive in a dark damp sugary atmosphere) When I am going to use again repeat the heating of 5 litres of water with added alkaline cleaner. Rinse and fill with strike water.

It is very likely jceg316 your fermenter and fridge will also be infected so you should look at giving them a thorough clean also.

Here's what I've done:

Cleaned my grainfather and all the small parts by soaking them in oxi clean, then using pipe cleaners scrubbing away.
Put the grainfather back together and did a "cleaning cycle" with their cleaner.
Boiled 10 litres of water in there and circulated that through the system (inc chiller).

I dumped the batch in my SS BrewBucket and gave it a really good clean with soap and a sponge, it was looking like new.
took off the tap and racking arm and boiled in water for 10 mins.
put it back together and before use poured boiling water inside the kettle, put the lid on and left for a bit.

I brewed a batch of beer to test out whether the infection is gone. I threw out any jars of harvested yeast I had. Sad I know, but really wanna make sure I've got rid of this infection. The only yeast I had ready to go was WLP Czeck Budejovice. I made a simple lager: 3kg pilsner, 1kg vienna. Bittered with 18g Chinook and and 25g Lublin 10 mins before FO. When all wort was in the FV, I shook for 1 min to aerate then added the yeast and it went in my fridge set to 12C. I think the wort was around 16C. Gonna try the Brulosophy quick lager method.

Reading about this yeast it can take a while to see any activity when fermenting at cooler temps (like 12c), and this morning there was no airlock activity. I'm hoping what I'm seeing is normal and I have gotten rid of any bug living in my system. I have previously seen my wort fermenting on its own at this time, but I haven't fermented cool in a while so could be the temperature is slowing down this wild yeast/bacteria too. Will keep you all updated.

Good luck.

jceg316 said:

Here's what I've done:

Cleaned my grainfather and all the small parts by soaking them in oxi clean, then using pipe cleaners scrubbing away.
Put the grainfather back together and did a "cleaning cycle" with their cleaner.
Boiled 10 litres of water in there and circulated that through the system (inc chiller).

I dumped the batch in my SS BrewBucket and gave it a really good clean with soap and a sponge, it was looking like new.
took off the tap and racking arm and boiled in water for 10 mins.
put it back together and before use poured boiling water inside the kettle, put the lid on and left for a bit.

I brewed a batch of beer to test out whether the infection is gone. I threw out any jars of harvested yeast I had. Sad I know, but really wanna make sure I've got rid of this infection. The only yeast I had ready to go was WLP Czeck Budejovice. I made a simple lager: 3kg pilsner, 1kg vienna. Bittered with 18g Chinook and and 25g Lublin 10 mins before FO. When all wort was in the FV, I shook for 1 min to aerate then added the yeast and it went in my fridge set to 12C. I think the wort was around 16C. Gonna try the Brulosophy quick lager method.

Reading about this yeast it can take a while to see any activity when fermenting at cooler temps (like 12c), and this morning there was no airlock activity. I'm hoping what I'm seeing is normal and I have gotten rid of any bug living in my system. I have previously seen my wort fermenting on its own at this time, but I haven't fermented cool in a while so could be the temperature is slowing down this wild yeast/bacteria too. Will keep you all updated.

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Did you disinfect the fridge as it cools from 16 to 12 it might suck in through the airlock also did you fill the airlock with something like star san

Alside101 said:

Did you disinfect the fridge as it cools from 16 to 12 it might suck in through the airlock also did you fill the airlock with something like star san

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I haven't cleaned the fridge but there is starsan in the airlock. I don't think any did make it back into the fv as 16 to 12 isn't a huge difference in temp.

Sounds pretty thorough. Fingers crossed

one place that harbours nastys is in the valves, especially the cheaper ball valve, strip and clean, the butterfy valves are better but i stripped one and there was a bit of **** in there.

Update no.2:

Over the weekend I dumped the 2 beers in my glass demis and cleaned them with oxy cleaner, thoroughly rinsed then bleached. I didn't wanna use bleach but seeing as I go years between using small amounts I figured it would be alright. I brewed a pale ale using some hops which have been in my freezer for ages or are past their best as a test brew. If it goes wrong doesn't matter too much butwill still be a nice beer if comes out well.

I had other problems on brewday though, in that the filter came off my granfather during the boil. When this happens I find I can get a good stream out the recirculation arm but now the CF chiller. At 85°C I transferred to my glass demijohn, this temperature is still hot enough to kill most bacteria and yeast apparently which probably helped with sterilisation. Obviously I couldn't pitch my yeast which was a bit problematic as I rehydrated a sachet of US-05 so I stuck that covered in the fridge. Due to work and then seeing Truckfighters last night, I pitched about 12am meaning the wort was left for 30 hours. When I left wort this long it would usually start fermenting on its own, but before pitching the yeast the wort smelled amazing, no signs of bad yeast/bacteria.

As of this morning, 9.5 hours after pitching there is no yeast activity yet but some small airlock activity. I feel like maybe the yeast won't be in the best condition.

The Lager in my conical is doing ok so far. I've taken 2 samples and no off flavours yet, but at the time it was only half way through fermenting. WLP802 is very slow and I don't want to keep drawing off samples. I'm on the diacetyl rest so once the airlock activity has slowed down will take another sample to make sure is ok.