Starter kit indecision. HomeBrewCompany or MaltMiller

Evening all!

I'm a big beer drinker that has long since flirted with the idea of giving my own thing a try but it's only recently that I found myself idly reading forums/articles and watching youtube videos, since which I've found myself completely absorbed and more than a little eager to dive right in.

I shall keep stuff simple initially and get the measure of some brewkits before upping the ante and have narrowed my beginners gear down to these two kits (a kit would be most ideal as I will get it delivered to my parents - I live in a flat making receipt of deliveries a pain so an all in one job is fairer on them):

1. https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/home-brew-starter-kit/
   
2. https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/30-litre-fermenting-bucket/

Or

1. http://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.uk...arter-kit-includes-33lt-fermenters-p-968.html

I was set on the MaltMiller job with an additional FV because it means I can experiment with a vessel that has a tap and one without to see what I prefer particularly when it comes to bottling/sanitation/secondary fermentation, and because it comes with some hard to find StarSan.

Before pulling the trigger however I then saw the homebrewcompany version. Not much between the two I know except that the latter is 33L instead of 30, cheaper and that their FVs are without a tap. I will mostly be brewing darkgrained stuff I suspect so 30 is the lowest I'd like to go down to bearing in mind blowouts.

Sorry if longwinded but any thoughts? Am I overlooking or overthinking anything? Either of the two companies known for being particularly higher quality or better service than the other?

Thanks in advance!

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

Either of those kits would be fine. Having two FV's is certainly handy.

I have never had a FV with a tap, preferring to use a siphon tube with sediment trap. That way there is less chance of infection or leaks from the tap during fermenting. It's a matter of preference, but one that's difficult to face when you're just starting out.

You could always add a tap to a FV later, but you can't remove one.
Both will probably serve you well if you look after things like thermometer and hydrometer.

Both companies are have good service and quality products. On top of what cushy says, sooner rather than later you're going to be thinking about temperature control. The easiest way to do that is the use a heat bath: put the fv in a builders trug, fill the trug with water, and use an aquarium heater to keep the water at a constant temperature. You can't do that with a tap on the fv. On the flip side, taps with tubing on are easier to use than a syphon, but syphoning without disturbing the sediment is something you're going to want to learn anyway, as one day the tap will get clogged. Personally, I'd go for the HBC kit, as not only is it cheaper and bigger volume, it also comes with a syphon tube and sediment trap.

IainM said:

Both companies are have good service and quality products. On top of what cushy says, sooner rather than later you're going to be thinking about temperature control. The easiest way to do that is the use a heat bath: put the fv in a builders trug, fill the trug with water, and use an aquarium heater to keep the water at a constant temperature. You can't do that with a tap on the fv. On the flip side, taps with tubing on are easier to use than a syphon, but syphoning without disturbing the sediment is something you're going to want to learn anyway, as one day the tap will get clogged. Personally, I'd go for the HBC kit, as not only is it cheaper and bigger volume, it also comes with a syphon tube and sediment trap.

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Must admit I'm very attracted to the idea of a water bath particularly as the house can sometimes be empty for a couple of days leaving room temperature prone to fluctuation. A wilkos trug (£4.50) and fishtank heater w/thermo (£8ish) should do it from what I have seen? Though why does the tap cause problems seeing as it can just be lifted out of the bath for use - is it a sanitation concern?

gerald8_kop said:

Must admit I'm very attracted to the idea of a water bath particularly as the house can sometimes be empty for a couple of days leaving room temperature prone to fluctuation. A wilkos trug (£4.50) and fishtank heater w/thermo (£8ish) should do it from what I have seen? Though why does the tap cause problems seeing as it can just be lifted out of the bath for use - is it a sanitation concern?

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If the trug is big enough for the bucket with a tap attached then I cant see what the problem is. My syphon came with a clip to attach to the bucket but I was never able to syphon without having to hold it in place the whole time, so I imagine this would make bottling a nightmare. Both my buckets have taps, my bottling wand had an inch of hose which fitted snuggly over the tap end which made bottling easy. I now uses kegs so don't bottle anymore.

Keruso said:

If the trug is big enough for the bucket with a tap attached then I cant see what the problem is. My syphon came with a clip to attach to the bucket but I was never able to syphon without having to hold it in place the whole time, so I imagine this would make bottling a nightmare. Both my buckets have taps, my bottling wand had an inch of hose which fitted snuggly over the tap end which made bottling easy. I now uses kegs so don't bottle anymore.

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Ah excellent, if it's only a sizing issue then that's promising as it seems you can get some pretty large ones online at not much more cost. Would probably double quite conveniently for putting ice in if I was feeling adventurous and fancied giving cold crashing a try

@gerald8_kop in case you don’t already know you can get 5% discount on HBC orders using the code in the sponsor forum.

Keats said:

@gerald8_kop in case you don’t already know you can get 5% discount on HBC orders using the code in the sponsor forum.

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I didn't - and will note for future so thankyou - but I think I'm going to go with my original gut instinct and plump for the MM option. Bit more expensive but gives me the flexibility/the option to see whether I prefer with or without spigot and the slightly smaller volume means it will be less of a struggle to fit into a trug. Will sleep on it for a bit but thats how I feel following advice here and on the below if interested or bored

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...and-patience-appreciated.671162/#post-8698598

A fellow Sheffielder too! I live in Nottingham but am up quite oft due to having a Wednesday season ticket and for the odd beer circuit. Will be heading over to Kelham Island infact on Sat for the festival

No worries, I don’t have taps on my FVs, they are 30l at most, so similar to your preference but I’m sure all will be good whatever you decide. No taps means one less thing to clean!

Got to admit I’m not a native Sheffielder. From the other side of the Pennines but been here since ‘88. Had missed that there was a festival at Kelham Island so thanks for the heads up.

Hello again guys

I have my kit together and am about to embark on the journey. I did however worry myself slightly when reading a cooper recipe thread on here as I'm making their original stout (with extra fermentables) and there is lots of krausen talk. All of the youtube vids and articles RE blow off tubes is done using a three piece air lock - any suggestions if like me you have the S bend?

The FV will be sat in a carpeted flat so I'm keen to keep things clean!

Thanks

gerald8_kop said:

Hello again guys

I have my kit together and am about to embark on the journey. I did however worry myself slightly when reading a cooper recipe thread on here as I'm making their original stout (with extra fermentables) and there is lots of krausen talk. All of the youtube vids and articles RE blow off tubes is done using a three piece air lock - any suggestions if like me you have the S bend?

The FV will be sat in a carpeted flat so I'm keen to keep things clean!

Thanks

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Blow off tubes are fine when they don't get blocked. But if they do, as sometimes happens, they are useless, and cause more problems than they solve.
I have brewed several Coopers Stout kits and the solution which avoided a blow off tube was to simply brew short, in my case about 19 litres which caters for a large krausen in the headspace, which allows use of a standard airlock. Plus keep the fermentation temperature down to 18/19*C rather than 22/23*C say. Finally if you are concerned about any mess from overflows from the FV (however unlikely) then placing your FV in a garden or laundry trug will do the job, but make sure it will fit inside if you buy . Wilko sell them for £4,50

As Terry said brew short with most kits to 19ltr it will give the beer more depth of flavour. If you are worried about it lifting the ABV too much just drop the amount of additions such as DME/Brewing sugar to compensate that is if it is a single can kit with 2 can kits it will lift the ABV as there is no way to reduce the ABV as they do not generally require any additions. If you still want to take it to 23ltr you can brew at 19ltr and back liquor to 23 or anywhere in between by using water after the initial fermentation has died down a bit, I use tap water at room temp or if you are one of these that may become paranoid use cooled boiled water at room temp

Oh okay. I was planning on brewing short anyhow for a higher ABV so I guess that suits since I'd decided upon:

Coopers kit
1kg dark DME
1 tin black treacle
20/21 ltr
20 degrees (I have a heat mat and inkbird)

The flat I'm in isnt mine which is why Im a touch more concerned than I otherwise may have been but happy to place my trust in you guys should you think short brewing and putting a towel or summat down should suffice!

Also I didnt realise you could top up the wort with water after the initial fermentation has settled down

gerald8_kop said:

Oh okay. I was planning on brewing short anyhow for a higher ABV so I guess that suits since I'd decided upon:

Coopers kit
1kg dark DME
1 tin black treacle
20/21 ltr
20 degrees (I have a heat mat and inkbird)

The flat I'm in isnt mine which is why Im a touch more concerned than I otherwise may have been but happy to place my trust in you guys should you think short brewing and putting a towel or summat down should suffice!

Also I didnt realise you could top up the wort with water after the initial fermentation has settled down

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Go steady on the black treacle, unless you are a keen fan of the taste, or are prepared to wait months for it to condition out. If you have not used it before my suggestion is 150-200g max. It's not a subtle taste and has the potential to overwhelm. I used 120g of dark muscavado sugar in my stouts and that was enough for me, although we are all different. And if you want to tone down the black treacle substitute golden syrup gm for gm.

Certainly go steady on the black treacle can really overpower and give a acrid taste do in moderation on your first and if you think it needs more add it next brew. Don't forget most brews have a complex mix of flavours and you do not want one to mask the others

Thats fair enough, cheers guys.

I have an irish stout kit too awaiting afterwards so maybe I shall add half and save the other for the irish if I'm happy with how things turn out. Mostly adding it to try and make the process of using a kit feel a little more adventurous in truth but as you rightly say it's my first attempt and it would be a bit disheartening to finish up with 30 odd unwanted pints.

This is the thread should anyone be very bored - it's a long one.

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/coopers-original-stout-review.17817/

gerald8_kop said:

Thats fair enough, cheers guys.

I have an irish stout kit too awaiting afterwards so maybe I shall add half and save the other for the irish if I'm happy with how things turn out. Mostly adding it to try and make the process of using a kit feel a little more adventurous in truth but as you rightly say it's my first attempt and it would be a bit disheartening to finish up with 30 odd unwanted pints.

This is the thread should anyone be very bored - it's a long one.

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/coopers-original-stout-review.17817/

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If you are new to brewing and haven't got much experience of how different additions affect the flavour (we have all been there!), it's often best to do a kit close to what the instructions recommend, then you can start to build up your knowledge. In your case, kit can plus the dark DME brewed slightly short will produce a stout that rivals many that you can buy, since Coopers stouts are up there with the best beer kits, so personally I would be leaving out the black treacle on this brew.

Unwanted pints...!!?? You only don't drink them if there's something growing in it,swimming in it or it tastes like sewage...

A bit late to this but I can only repeat the good advice already given...

Don't worry about an energetic fermentation/krausen - it's going to happen at some stage and you're not a proper homebrewer until you've had one!! . However, putting the fv in a trug as suggested will reduce the clean up required. I find the darker brews are the worst for this but just recently had an enthusiastic IPA which wanted to escape.

I have used both suppliers that you have mentioned and both are good. One thing I have found is to buy decent quality equipment as it will last if you treat it well. I have a thermometer and capper both purchased from Boots nearly 30 years ago. I had to replace the Boots hydrometer about 6 years ago as it rolled off the counter top.

I don't have any fvs with a tap. I've always managed with a siphon and sediment trap (and a small mesh bag that come with the Festival kits). I have another siphon tube with a bottling stick which I use for bottling from the bottling fv after batch priming. Others on here do it another way and have an fv with a tap and a little bottler attached. My way works for me and their way works for them. See which method you prefer.

Finally, as terrym says, watch out for the black treacle in a stout. I added a whole small tin to 20 litres of a stout kit aiming for a treacle toffee type taste. After 12 months, the treacle taste was still too strong for me!!

Pavros said:

I have used both suppliers that you have mentioned and both are good. One thing I have found is to buy decent quality equipment as it will last if you treat it well. I have a thermometer and capper both purchased from Boots nearly 30 years ago. I had to replace the Boots hydrometer about 6 years ago as it rolled off the counter top.
I don't have any fvs with a tap. I've always managed with a siphon and sediment trap (and a small mesh bag that come with the Festival kits). I have another siphon tube with a bottling stick which I use for bottling from the bottling fv after batch priming. Others on here do it another way and have an fv with a tap and a little bottler attached. My way works for me and their way works for them. See which method you prefer.

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I also had a Boots glass thermometer which had withstood the test of 40+ years of brewing but I found out recently that they don't bounce.
+1 on finding a method that suits you best. I find the first method of your three (siphon tube, cane with trap, Festival kit sock) is fine for me.