BIAB.

SteveHatton · Dec 20, 2019

Hi guys,

I started with homebrew kits earlier this year. Done 6 now I think, and been very impressed with the quality of the beer. American IPA, juicy session IP{A, American mocha porter, pink grapefruit ipa, all very good.

I'm toying with buying some all grain gear to try BIAB all grain. My only question really is, other than the learning and appreciating you've made it yourself, is there any great benefit from this over the great kits that are now available? Considering the kits are circa 20quid for 40 pints, and all grain ingredient kits seem to be only a couple of quid less.

I certainly haven't got the funds for the likes of a grainfather etc so would only be buying the cheapest BIAB equipment I could get.

Appreciate any advice

Cwrw666 · Dec 20, 2019

If you buy in bulk then all grain is the cheapest by far and once you get the hang of it the beer is better too. For example, 25Kg pale malt can be as low as £20 and that's enough for between 6 and 8 brews. Of course, you then have to buy speciality grains, hops, yeast etc. but it still works out cheaper.

MyQul · Dec 20, 2019

SteveHatton said:
Hi guys,

Sorry if i'm jumping on another thread here. I started with homebrew kits earlier this year. Done 6 now I think, and been very impressed with the quality of the beer. American IPA, juicy session IP{A, American mocha porter, pink grapefruit ipa, all very good.

I'm toying with buying some all grain gear to try BIAB all grain. My only question really is, other than the learning and appreciating you've made it yourself, is there any great benefit from this over the great kits that are now available? Considering the kits are circa 20quid for 40 pints, and all grain ingredient kits seem to be only a couple of quid less.

I certainly haven't got the funds for the likes of a grainfather etc so would only be buying the cheapest BIAB equipment I could get.

Appreciate any advice

As @Cwrw666 says, AG is loads cheaper than kits.You can also do a few 'tricks' like add some golden syrup or adjucts like oats or barley to help stretch out the sack.

Kit wise I have probably the lowest tech kit you can use. A pot that I use on my stove and a mash bag, plus a few other assorted bits like a spirit thermometer, hydrometer, syphone ,etc. All of which you probably have already for kit brewing. You dont need an all in one system like a grainfather or a klarstein clone to make great beer

SteveHatton · Dec 20, 2019

MyQul said:
As @Cwrw666 says, AG is loads cheaper than kits.You can also do a few 'tricks' like add some golden syrup or adjucts like oats or barley to help stretch out the sack.

Kit wise I have probably the lowest tech kit you can use. A pot that I use on my stove and a mash bag, plus a few other assorted bits like a spirit thermometer, hydrometer, syphone ,etc. All of which you probably have already for kit brewing. You dont need an all in one system like a grainfather or a klarstein clone to make great beer

Thanks for the replies. Do you not use a chiller then? Just ice bath in a sink instead?

With regards buying in bulk, unless you crack the grains yourself I thought that they should all be used as soon as possible, which for me would mean only buying in batch volumes. Definitely keen to have a go so may just go down the route of a large mash pan instead of buying a brew kettle. I've a really powerful induction hob so reckon I could get away with using that.

MyQul · Dec 20, 2019

SteveHatton said:
Thanks for the replies. Do you not use a chiller then? Just ice bath in a sink instead?

With regards buying in bulk, unless you crack the grains yourself I thought that they should all be used as soon as possible, which for me would mean only buying in batch volumes. Definitely keen to have a go so may just go down the route of a large mash pan instead of buying a brew kettle. I've a really powerful induction hob so reckon I could get away with using that.

I no chill so I dont use/need a chiller. The only downside to this is you get chill haze if you put your beer in the fridge (I always drink my beer at room temp anyway because I dont like ice cold beer)

When I get my sack of milled grain I get a load of zip lock bags from the super market and fill each one till I can just about zip it closed (They each hold about 1.8kg) I then put these in a 60L barrel kept in a second bedroom. My grain last until I've used it up, which is many many months as I dont actually drink a lot (I try to stay to about 7 units of alcohol pw).
I do have a cheapo mill but I just use that for specialty grains, as I buy them whole

Plenty of people use inducton hobs for brewing, so that would deffo work

Hengoedbrewer · Dec 20, 2019

MyQul said:
I no chill so I dont use/need a chiller. The only downside to this is you get chill haze if you put your beer in the fridge (I always drink my beer at room temp anyway because I dont like ice cold beer)

When I get my sack of milled grain I get a load of zip lock bags from the super market and fill each one till I can just about zip it closed (They each hold about 1.8kg) I then put these in a 60L barrel kept in a second bedroom. My grain last until I've used it up, which is many many months as I dont actually drink a lot (I try to stay to about 7 units of alcohol pw).
I do have a cheapo mill but I just use that for specialty grains, as I buy them whole

Plenty of people use inducton hobs for brewing, so that would deffo work

Quick question on no chill- one aspect I am struggling with with BIAB is getting the wort to chill down quick enough post boil- I don't want a wort chiller as on a water meter. Can you simply put your wort into the FV and leave it to cool naturally or is this risking infection? and I think I read somewhere that it also affects hop utilisation...?

samale · Dec 20, 2019

Hengoedbrewer said:
Quick question on no chill- one aspect I am struggling with with BIAB is getting the wort to chill down quick enough post boil- I don't want a wort chiller as on a water meter. Can you simply put your wort into the FV and leave it to cool naturally or is this risking infection? and I think I read somewhere that it also affects hop utilisation...?

I no chill my beer. Just make sure it's in a sealed container and let it drop in temperature by itself. Normally it takes around 24hrs if indoors. If I use the garage it speeds it up

samale · Dec 20, 2019

It wise I have a burco boiler which cost 90 pounds new and the bag was cheap enough as well the rest of the kit you should already have from doing kits

samale · Dec 20, 2019

Look online for a second hand boiler/ tea urn if money's tight.

Hengoedbrewer · Dec 20, 2019

samale said:
I no chill my beer. Just make sure it's in a sealed container and let it drop in temperature by itself. Normally it takes around 24hrs if indoors. If I use the garage it speeds it up

Thank you- do you need to compensate with additional hops or anything using this method, do you find?

MyQul · Dec 20, 2019

Hengoedbrewer said:
Quick question on no chill- one aspect I am struggling with with BIAB is getting the wort to chill down quick enough post boil- I don't want a wort chiller as on a water meter. Can you simply put your wort into the FV and leave it to cool naturally or is this risking infection? and I think I read somewhere that it also affects hop utilisation...?

I put my near boiling wort into two 5L FV's and cover with cling film. One advantage of no-chilling in an fv is, all the protein/trub matter sinks to the bottom of the FV during the chilling. The following day you can decant/carefully pour the wort off the trub into another FV. In tha way you only have about 1cm of yeast after the fermentation and little to no trub. So you are able to harvest almost pure yeast.

I never adjust my hopping rates for no-chill and have never noticed any difference. Then again I dont make IPA's or any other really hoppy beer so no-chill might effect those styles

samale · Dec 20, 2019

I make alot of hoppy beers I add at flameout and dry hop. You will learn as you go along down stress about the fine details until you get the hang of things first. Brew beer to suit your taste. Just get your mash temp and fermentation temp right first off.

Hengoedbrewer · Dec 20, 2019

MyQul said:
I put my near boiling wort into two 5L FV's and cover with cling film. One advantage of no-chilling in an fv is, all the protein/trub matter sinks to the bottom of the FV during the chilling. The following day you can decant/carefully pour the wort off the trub into another FV. In tha way you only have about 1cm of yeast after the fermentation and little to no trub. So you are able to harvest almost pure yeast.

I never adjust my hopping rates for no-chill and have never noticed any difference. Then again I dont make IPA's or any other really hoppy beer so no-chill might effect those styles

Thanks for that- I might well give that a go. I will be trying a hoppy IPA next as it goes but it has taken me ages to cool wort as I say, I don't really know why that is I used ice in the sink and it was only a 10L brew), but it does add a lot of time I don't really have to my brew day waiting for it to cool so no chill would be ideal for me.

I assume syphoning to another FV is also okay rather than pouring? (I have an auto siphon for xmas so may as well!)

Thanks @samale too for the advice. Hoppy IPA's are my "go to". Hopefully fermentation temp no longer an issue as I have a brew fridge to set up over Xmas.

skulltat280 · Dec 20, 2019

Hengoedbrewer said:
Quick question on no chill- one aspect I am struggling with with BIAB is getting the wort to chill down quick enough post boil- I don't want a wort chiller as on a water meter. Can you simply put your wort into the FV and leave it to cool naturally or is this risking infection? and I think I read somewhere that it also affects hop utilisation...?

you could use a suitable container to set your pot in, some water and ice, and a pump to circulate the water through the chiller topping up with more ice as it melts especially at the start when the hot wort will melt the ice fast

Cwrw666 · Dec 21, 2019

If you transfer your wort hot into the FV then this actually reduces the risk of infection as the wort itself will sanitise the FV. I find if I finish brewing by 2pm then the wort will have cooled sufficiently by bedtime to pitch the yeast.
You might find that you have to reduce the quantity of bittering hops a little as with no-chill you do extract some bitterness from the flameout hop addition.

Brewnaldo · Dec 21, 2019

See with no chill, is there any value in throwing the FV with the hot wort into an ice bath just the once at the start, just to take it down off boiling tenp quickly and maybe minimise the impact it has on the hops? Whats the critical temperature regarding hops inparting bitterness vs flavour?

Sandimas · Dec 21, 2019

You don't have to brew the "standards" 23 litres, you can scale up/down. I scale down to do BIAB brews in a 15L stockpot, which means I can do 12L AG brews or 17L hybrid partial-mash brews using grain and 1kg DME. The great thing with this method is that the 15L pan fits in my sink, so filling it with cold water and stirring, and repeating a few times, is adequate for cooling the brew after the boil.

Regarding quality, you mention mostly hoppy brews. These hops tend to mask any off flavours with kits, so hoppy kits aren't bad, but you notice the lesser quality with kits like British ales that have less hops. That's where AG really comes into it's own, and the fact that you can brew unlimited styles of beer. I've just started making strong Belgian beers.

Cwrw666 · Dec 21, 2019

Brewnaldo said:
See with no chill, is there any value in throwing the FV with the hot wort into an ice bath just the once at the start, just to take it down off boiling tenp quickly and maybe minimise the impact it has on the hops? Whats the critical temperature regarding hops inparting bitterness vs flavour?

I know some people add the flameout hops when the brew is down to 80c to avoid bitterness issues, but I just do it at flameout, leave it for half an hour then drain into the FV. The only beers I've had to reduce the bittering hops were for IPA's as I was finding them just a tad too bitter. Probably wouldn't bother now as I've got used to drinking Victorian pale ales which are super hoppy, more than a modern IPA.

RichK · Dec 21, 2019

I moved from kits to BIAB about 18 months ago. Initially, with a Wilko "12L" pot on the stove so total extra outlay was around £20. That would yield about 8L batches. That got me started & gave me an idea of what is involved without too much capital. It also showed me that it was a route I wanted to go down.

OK, I've spent more since but reckon I'll get that back over time. Cost saving isn't a prime objective (I can buy a drinkable bottle of beer for 89p from Aldi or some I really quite like for about £1.25) I'm making something I like to drink that I've made.

I can only add that moving to AG has been a good thing for me & I'd recommend giving it a go. Yes, there is a bit of outlay, and yes it does take a lot longer. But I think it's worth it.

dwhite60 · Dec 22, 2019

L

MyQul said:
Kit wise I have probably the lowest tech kit you can use. A pot that I use on my stove and a mash bag, plus a few other assorted bits like a spirit thermometer, hydrometer, syphone ,etc. All of which you probably have already for kit brewing. You dont need an all in one system like a grainfather or a klarstein clone to make great beer

I have the same stuff. It has worked well for me for over thirty years. I have an immersion chiller too. I love cheap stuff that works! My pot is five gallons. I usually do a two to three gallon batch.

All the Best,
D. White

BIAB.

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