Heating....

Brewnaldo · Dec 23, 2019

I have in my possession a load of 8W/ft electrical trace heating tape. Not sure if any of you will be familiar with this stuff but it is used in industry for wrapping round pipes etc to keep them from freezing up.

I plan to use it along with an inkbird to keep my FV controlled.

My concern is say I am looking for 15degC, the FV can either sit on top of the coil of tape, or I can wrap it round. My concern is that it gets too hot at the point of contact with the fv and kills the yeast. Is that likely to happen? Obviously with the tenp probe insulated from the outside air as best I can, the tape will be on for a good while and it does get fairly hot.

Perhaps id be better making a heat mat type deal by putting something between the FV and the tape itself?

Anyone use a similar Heath Robinson style arrangement?

johncrobinson · Dec 23, 2019

At 8watts pr foot i dont think you will have any problems with localised overheating.

I have done many ferments with a brewbelt and controller without overheating problems.

Your temp controller will regulate the temp,This is the most important thing,Do not put anything inbetween the tape and the fermenting vessel.That will only cause errors.
In fact you need the very best thermal contact you can get.

Its complicated to explain on a short post but basically its all to do with control theory and time lags.

In short you have nothing to worry about.

JonBrew · Dec 23, 2019

I've never used the trace heating tape but I do use a brew belt which has an inner heating element cable - I'd speculate that they are fundamentally the same. In real terms, when my heating belt is running I can touch it without it burning my fingers - it's quite warm but not hot. At that level of heat I don't believe that the yeast could be adversely effected. I've heard of one or two folks on the interwebs claiming that they can taste cooked off flavours in beers where these direct heating devices have been used but I've not detected this personally.

skulltat280 · Dec 23, 2019

The inkbird will switch off the heat at the desired temperature so I can't get too hot

BeerCat · Dec 23, 2019

I have an 80w heat belt that gets far too hot to touch and i have no problems. Your idea sounds good, i would wrap it around the bottom a few times and insulate the fv with an old coat.

Brewnaldo · Dec 23, 2019

skulltat280 said:
The inkbird will switch off the heat at the desired temperature so I can't get too hot

Thanks everyone for the replies feel better about it now. This one specifically though, my fear was that the tape is on, belting hot until such times as the wort heats up sufficiently for the probe to detect it and switch off. So in that time, there could be a localised overheat.

Anyway no matter. Sounds like the other devices in common use heat to a similar level and in a similar way so should be all good. The bottom line is this method was "acquired" free of charge so keen for it to work to keep the costs down.

Long term plan is to get hold of a brew fridge so probably only two or three brews using this method and tryong to cobble together some effective insulation etc.

terrym · Dec 23, 2019

@Brewnaldo
If you are uneasy about heating your FV direct with the heating tape you could use a water bath and wrap the tape around the bath outside.
So instead of using a fish tank heater in the water (as normally used) you would be heating through the water bath wall and controlling against the bath temperature not the beer. You may even a have a garden trug you could use.
More on water baths here
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/how-to-set-up-a-water-bath-for-your-fv.66407/

Brewnaldo · Dec 23, 2019

terrym said:
@Brewnaldo
If you are uneasy about heating your FV direct with the heating tape you could use a water bath and wrap the tape around the bath outside.
So instead of using a fish tank heater in the water (as normally used) you would be heating through the water bath wall and controlling against the bath temperature not the beer. You may even a have a garden trug you could use.
More on water baths here
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/how-to-set-up-a-water-bath-for-your-fv.66407/

Thanks Terry. My first brew will be a kit so dont mind using it as a learning experience although if time permite I may hook it all up to an FV of water to see how the temperature profile/control looks.

Nicks90 · Dec 23, 2019

It won't get localised hot spots, just look at water being heated in a glass kettle, it's amazing how quickly the water moves about with convection currents in the kettle.
Same will happen in your fv, but this there will be 20l of liquid moving about. Just think of the energy required to heat 20l by 5c - it takes an 80w heat belt quite some time to manage it!

Whatt · Dec 24, 2019

Used an upturned bucket with an old type 40 watt bulb inside, sit your brew bucket on top, plug this in through a timer if it gets to hot. Worked fine for many years.

Drunkula · Dec 24, 2019

Nicks90 is spot on. You'll get convection on the outside layer upwards and the middle downwards. Imagine a couple of tank treads back to back and that's what the cross section would look like.

Nicks90 · Dec 25, 2019

I bet if you a thermometer a couple of mm away from the brewbelt on the inside of the fv, there would be an almost imperceptible temp difference to the rest of the liquid.

foxy · Dec 25, 2019

The exo thermal energy produced by the yeast as it starts to ferment sends thermal currents throughout the vessel and they move quite rapidly. The internal temperature can be as much as 8 degrees C higher than ambient temperature yeast dependent.

Brewnaldo · Dec 26, 2019

So would anyone advise setting the inkbird temp on the lower end of the yeast range?

Crappyfish · Dec 26, 2019

Whilst on this subject I use a heating mat with a inkbird and I put the probe under a bungy cord so it touches the side of the FV about half way up on the outside, any suggestions where it's best to put it (please keep it printable) as putting it in the wort is not possible cos the only hole in the FV lid is where the airlock fits.

Nicks90 · Dec 26, 2019

Should be fine there, I put mine under a sponge washing up pad held tight against the fv using a bungee. Never been an issue and seems to correlate accurately when I out a kitchen food probe in the fv to dog le check.
However I got thermostatic brew belt for chrimbo, so will not need it, but will probably continue to use it for a couple of brews to just double check the brew belt temp settings are accurate

foxy · Dec 26, 2019

Just tape or blue tack the probe onto the side of the fermenter you may only lose one or two degrees because of the insulating property of plastic.

Drunkula · Dec 27, 2019

I'm with Foxy. Big wadge of blue tak because of its thermal inertia not changing too much if you open the brew fridge for a sneaky peep.

Pete9586 · Dec 27, 2019

Crappyfish said:
Whilst on this subject I use a heating mat with a inkbird and I put the probe under a bungy cord so it touches the side of the FV about half way up on the outside, any suggestions where it's best to put it (please keep it printable) as putting it in the wort is not possible cos the only hole in the FV lid is where the airlock fits.

Exactly what i do and when i've checked inside the FV, it's usually within 1 degree.

Brewnaldo · Dec 27, 2019

Just to update this, using my IR thermometer to check it seems to be controlling really quite well. If I were to stick to brewing my lagers in the winter time then I suspect no more kit would be required. I have dropped the fermentation temp a few degrees as per @terrym suggestion and it is bubbling away nicely, the temperature has responded as it should. I do have a large excess of heat tape, which may yet justify a second FV getting setup

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