Mangrove Jack French Saison yeast - What should it taste like?

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The Baron

The Baron

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Hi just brewed a Saison with MJ French Saison yeast and I know that I should have fermented it higher but without a fermentation chamber I struggled to get it above 20c even at the side of the radiator. Now my question is I know there are many styles of Saison and depending on which bottles you have drunk previously you can get a different version of what a Saison should taste like. I think the modern day yeast will not be like the olde/original Saisons so what should I expect from it as mine tastes like a pseudo lager with a tiny hint of lime/citrus and the hops were 25g of Columbus and 25g of Centennial. I think I have missed out of the funkiness with the low fermentation temp, and do not know if the slight citrus is from the hops Ps there is a very sight tang/sour to the beer as newly fermented
 
I tried to find a Saison kit review on here but couldn't, so I started my own on the Bulldog brews Hercule Saison kit. Maybe you can leave a review of your recipe in a few weeks?
The only reason I brewed it was because I couldn't find a bottle of it to try to see if I liked it, and 4 bottles delivered was the same price as a kit of 40, so I made the kit.

From the little I know on the subject the finished result is whatever you want it to be as it is a fairly cheap farmhouse ale, so like the "House Red" it could be anything. It was also traditionally brewed in the wintertime (one saison) to be drunk by workers in the Summer - (another saison), so whatever it has become now I would think it would traditionally been brewed in cold weather. True you would get more fruity flavours from a higher temp ferment but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Maybe we can do a bottle swap as neither of us seem to know this style. I was after a fairly low alcohol drink for Summer afternoons, so I think ended up around 3.6% ABV
 
I have drunk a Saison before in the bottles and from memory the one I had was a little bit funky and slightly sour but as I said that is just one variant. I will leave mine to develop in the keg for a few more weeks as I know beers can change quite a lot in the initial period. I will attach the recipe
 

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I have drunk a Saison before in the bottles and from memory the one I had was a little bit funky and slightly sour but as I said that is just one variant. I will leave mine to develop in the keg for a few more weeks as I know beers can change quite a lot in the initial period. I will attach the recipe
 
I love saison. It's my favorite beer style after American IPA. Thing is they're shrouded in romantic ********. Brewed in the winter for summer consumption for agricultural workers, bottled in discarded champagne bottles, kept moderately low in alcohol as you didn't want your workers passing out yadda yadda yadda.

I think saisons are first and foremost yeast forward, high attenuated beers which finish dry. The French and Belgium versions are my favourite, but I've yet to try Kveik or the Lithuanian farmhouse varieties. It would make sense that they'd ferment hot as I'm guessing temperature control would have been rudimentary at best in the days of yore.

I don't particularly like sour beers, (unless it's to have one on hand at a beer festival to clear the palette), so I'm not a huge fan of sour saisons or overly hopped American saisons where you can't taste the yeast.

Personally I like my saisons highly carbonated, light bodied, simple grain bill and yet the yeast do all the work. I've never had saison that tasted like a pseudo lager, but then again I've never tried that yeast.

I guess the important question is, do you like it?
 
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The best Saison I ever made was with yeast cultivated from a bottle of

DE GLAZEN TOREN, SAISON D'ERPE-MERE 75 CL
http://www.glazentoren.be/index.php/en/

Took about 2 weeks to make enough yeast for a 22 lit. batch, but well worth the effort. Forgot to crop any yeast during fermentation so I'll have to do it again :laugh8: I've used MJ yeast for Saison beers twice since and have had quite good results, no big raise in temp, as you observed. But no as good as the cultivated yeast, this had a substantial temp. about 28c.
 
St00 said:
I love saison. It's my favorite beer style after American IPA. Thing is they're shrouded in romantic ********. Brewed in the winter for summer consumption for agricultural workers, bottled in discarded champagne bottles, kept moderately low in alcohol as you didn't want your workers passing out yadda yadda yadda.

I think saisons are first and foremost yeast forward, high attenuated beers which finish dry. The French and Belgium versions are my favourite, but I've yet to try Kveik or the Lithuanian farmhouse varieties. It would make sense that they'd ferment hot as I'm guessing temperature control would have been rudimentary at best in the days of yore.

I don't particularly like sour beers, (unless it's to have one on hand at a beer festival to clear the palette), so I'm not a huge fan of sour saisons or overly hopped American saisons where you can't taste the yeast.

Personally I like my saisons highly carbonated, light bodied, simple grain bill and yet the yeast do all the work. I've never had saison that tasted like a pseudo lager, but then again I've never tried that yeast.

I guess the important question is, do you like it?
Click to expand...
Not sure how much I like it yet as I said at the mo it does taste Pseudo lagerish with a very slight funk/sour yeasty overtone but maybe that could also be the hops adding to that. I think it will change in the next 2 weeks or so so I will hold back the verdict and see what it develops. Definitely need a fermentation chamber/fridge to get the best from these yeasts or wait for a hot period in the summer
 
I think "funky" isn't the best term to describe how a saison should taste, and I'm not really sure what it means exactly. I think of saison as being spicy (peppery), fruity, and very dry. I haven't used that particular yeast, but if it's anything like Wyeast French saison then it doesn't really need high temperatures to give proper yeast character. I normally ferment around 23°C at most and usually pitch cooler than that.
 
There is no doubt it is dry Steve but the only Saison I have drunk before was Sourish is how I would describe it now I know that there are many perceptions of each beer style and that is why I asked what one should really taste like as I am no Saison expert so I will give it another 2 weeks in the keg and see what I get then as I have said at the moment it reminds me of a Pseudo lager with a slight yeasty/citrus taste, it could be the American hops that are giving the slight citrus taste but as I said the Makers recommend that the yeast is fermented at 26c or above so obviously I have at this moment in time not got the full spectrum of what the yeast brings to the party as t was fermented at 20c ish
 
strange-steve said:
I think "funky" isn't the best term to describe how a saison should taste, and I'm not really sure what it means exactly. I think of saison as being spicy (peppery), fruity, and very dry. I haven't used that particular yeast, but if it's anything like Wyeast French saison then it doesn't really need high temperatures to give proper yeast character. I normally ferment around 23°C at most and usually pitch cooler than that.
Click to expand...

I know those flavours you describe well Steve and I find my high fv temp saisons to have an extra character The closest I can think of are gueuze barnyard type qualities but calming down to what you describe over 2-3 months, so funky is all I can come up with... :coat:
 
I've been asking about brewing possibilities for warmer temperatures (my pantry is already up to 23c) and Saison was one of the names that kept cropping up. So last weekend I bought one to try as I can't remember what the last one I had tasted like (was a bit merry at that point). I thought it was very fruity, almost cider like, I liked it but not sure I'd want to spend all summer drinking it. The one I tried wasn't a ye olde style so maybe I would prefer a more traditional one?
 
the baron said:
There is no doubt it is dry Steve but the only Saison I have drunk before was Sourish is how I would describe it now I know that there are many perceptions of each beer style and that is why I asked what one should really taste like as I am no Saison expert so I will give it another 2 weeks in the keg and see what I get then as I have said at the moment it reminds me of a Pseudo lager with a slight yeasty/citrus taste, it could be the American hops that are giving the slight citrus taste but as I said the Makers recommend that the yeast is fermented at 26c or above so obviously I have at this moment in time not got the full spectrum of what the yeast brings to the party as t was fermented at 20c ish
Click to expand...
It might not be the same strain as Wy3711 then, it has a manufacturer's max recommended temperature of 25C.

A little touch of sourness isn't uncommon, particularly a citrusy tartness but it should be quite subtle. The main flavours should be very much yeast driven, so certainly not like a pseudo-lager. Dupont is probably the quintessential saison, though you'll probably have to go to a speciality bottle shop to find it.
 
A few people have said it is the same yeast as Belle Saison, have you ever used that SS ?
 
One of my favourite styles, although I've never had a commercial example!

In fact I've kept a portion of overbuilt WY3711 (my preferred saison yeast) in my fridge continuously for a year or so, so that I've got it on hand.

Whilst I realise that the beer should be very much yeast driven I do very much like the Brewing By Numbers Citra Saison clone in a book I've got. It has - from memory - about 25% wheat in the grist and some sugar to dry it out further. Big hit of Citra at the end of the boil. :beer1:
 
the baron said:
Hi just brewed a Saison with MJ French Saison yeast and I know that I should have fermented it higher but without a fermentation chamber I struggled to get it above 20c even at the side of the radiator. Now my question is I know there are many styles of Saison and depending on which bottles you have drunk previously you can get a different version of what a Saison should taste like. I think the modern day yeast will not be like the olde/original Saisons so what should I expect from it as mine tastes like a pseudo lager with a tiny hint of lime/citrus and the hops were 25g of Columbus and 25g of Centennial. I think I have missed out of the funkiness with the low fermentation temp, and do not know if the slight citrus is from the hops Ps there is a very sight tang/sour to the beer as newly fermented
Click to expand...

so this yeast is an isolate of the french saison strain.

this beer will be dry and clear with a light peppery character. Maybe a slight citrus back note but you need to have the right malt bill and get the fermentation right to get that.

it should finish out at an average speed and not get stuck.

it won’t be sour at all, and actually should be clean enough for most lager/light pale ale drinkers to like.

you want a carb upwards of 2.2 to really get the most out of it. You don’t need to age it or do anything like the Belgian strains.

The french saison is usually around 4.5-5.2% abv.

You shouldn’t be getting any clove, raisin or fuesel flavours or aromas that you would get with Belgians.

it’s not the best french saison yeast but it’s cheap and reliable to do what it’s supposed to do.

Hope that helps.
 
Thanks Hoddy like I say will give it a couple of weeks to condition and see if it is nearer what you say then. I did let it ferment longer than normal about 3 weeks to get to a low FG of 1.004
 

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