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Cyberjip

Cyberjip

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Joined
Feb 15, 2020
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Location
Argyll
Hi all,

I am going to need to brew some lager for the summer as it's been requested I make the beer for a big BBQ my parents are putting on,

While I do enjoy a nice lager from time to time in the summer I have never brewed one.
Any and all info on how to do a really good brew, IE a close approximation of a good store bought lager, think Staropramen, Javer or something like that.

I know summer is a way off but I don't want to have to rush it if I start to late.

I'll probably be ok with grain and hops but everything else I will probably be a little out of my comfort zone.

Especially looking for info\tips on

Water profile and treatment.
Yeast options
How long to primary
When and how to D-rest
Secondery, how long, what temp, can I do it in corny, when should I carb
Any other top lager tips from you lager heads.

Cheers
 
RichardM said:
Reading this would be a good start https://byo.com/article/10-keys-to-great-lager/
Click to expand...

Thanks, I have actually just read that article this evening, good call.

I was however looking for a bit more in depth info from experienced lager makers.

For instance it's says use a larger yeast. I would like to know what yeast people have had solid experienced with,

Also doesn't go into great detail about secondery and kegging.

Good read to get me started though you are right.
 
jceg316 said:
Do you have a form of temperature control?
Click to expand...
Yes I have a fridge.

Has food in at the moment but I'm going to empty clean and modify it this weekend (not my main fridge, don't fancy trying to get that one past SWMBO).

I have a temp controller and heat belt to go with it. Just added a thermowell to my FV to get the best reading possible to the controller.
 
Cyberjip said:
For instance it's says use a larger yeast. I would like to know what yeast people have had solid experienced with
Click to expand...
Here are the yeasts I've used:
Saflager S23 - Pretty foolproof lager yeast. Can be fermented warm and still come out well. I've used it in traditional lagers, hoppy lagers and doppelbocks with great results.

Saflager W-34/70 - Also a good lager yeast, I prefer it to above as I think it provides a more crisp flavour, however that might be in my head as this Brulosophy article says in their experiment no one could tell the difference between the two. It's been a while since I had S23 for a comparison as well. W-34/70 is also pretty resilient, can be fermented warm but recently they changed the dosage so one sachet is for 10L, not 23 how it used to be. Using 2 sachets for one brew is about the same price as a liquid yeast... Nonetheless, I love this yeast.

MJ Bavarian Lager - I'm fermenting a hoppy lager with this now, can write back my thoughts when done.

Wyeast 2124 Bohemian lager - I didn't think this was a Bohemian strain really and wasn't really a fan of the pilsner I made with it. The body was a bit thin. I made a Vienna lager fermented at 17°C and this yeast was fantastic. Was way better warm fermented than cold.

WLP 830 German lager - I used this for a rauchbier and I loved it as much as W-34/70. It gave the beer a crisp and malty flavour underneath the smokiness. This beer was a favourite. I could only use the yeast once though as it got infected. I'm planning to make a helles, maybe that rauchpils again, I'm gonna grab this yeast for that recipe.

WLP 802 Budejovice - Not a huge fan of this. I made a couple of really nice beers. One was underpitched and the yeast through out a lot of esters as well as highlighted some of the nutty flavours from the malts, the other I purposely overpitched to get a really clean flavour. It came out clean but this yeast highlights the hop flavours and bitterness a tad too much. The dominating flavours were bitterness, herb and spice from the Saaz, along with some maltiness. It reminded me a lot of Budvar which is great, but I prefer Staropramen or Urquell (the Czech versions of course!).

Wyeast California lager 2112 - not strictly speaking a lager yeast but similar enough. I used it in a stout which came out well. I'm about to pitch again into a Vienna lager soon. One reason for getting this is the Rush reference as well...

Cyberjip said:
Yes I have a fridge.
Click to expand...
That makes things a bit easier. You can do things traditionally where you brew the beer, then lager at 1°c for 6 weeks - 3 months and serve, try the quick lager method or ferment warm (17°c) and make a pseudo lager/Cali common. I've been trying the quick lager method and I'm quite happy with the results. The longer I leave my beer the nicer it is, although this is the case for all styles, however I'm quite impatient.

EDIT: I believe W-34/70, WY2124 and WLP830 are the same strain, interesting to see how different they come out.
 
jceg316 said:
Here are the yeasts I've used:
Saflager S23 - Pretty foolproof lager yeast. Can be fermented warm and still come out well. I've used it in traditional lagers, hoppy lagers and doppelbocks with great results.

Saflager W-34/70 - Also a good lager yeast, I prefer it to above as I think it provides a more crisp flavour, however that might be in my head as this Brulosophy article says in their experiment no one could tell the difference between the two. It's been a while since I had S23 for a comparison as well. W-34/70 is also pretty resilient, can be fermented warm but recently they changed the dosage so one sachet is for 10L, not 23 how it used to be. Using 2 sachets for one brew is about the same price as a liquid yeast... Nonetheless, I love this yeast.

MJ Bavarian Lager - I'm fermenting a hoppy lager with this now, can write back my thoughts when done.

Wyeast 2124 Bohemian lager - I didn't think this was a Bohemian strain really and wasn't really a fan of the pilsner I made with it. The body was a bit thin. I made a Vienna lager fermented at 17°C and this yeast was fantastic. Was way better warm fermented than cold.

WLP 830 German lager - I used this for a rauchbier and I loved it as much as W-34/70. It gave the beer a crisp and malty flavour underneath the smokiness. This beer was a favourite. I could only use the yeast once though as it got infected. I'm planning to make a helles, maybe that rauchpils again, I'm gonna grab this yeast for that recipe.

WLP 802 Budejovice - Not a huge fan of this. I made a couple of really nice beers. One was underpitched and the yeast through out a lot of esters as well as highlighted some of the nutty flavours from the malts, the other I purposely overpitched to get a really clean flavour. It came out clean but this yeast highlights the hop flavours and bitterness a tad too much. The dominating flavours were bitterness, herb and spice from the Saaz, along with some maltiness. It reminded me a lot of Budvar which is great, but I prefer Staropramen or Urquell (the Czech versions of course!).

Wyeast California lager 2112 - not strictly speaking a lager yeast but similar enough. I used it in a stout which came out well. I'm about to pitch again into a Vienna lager soon. One reason for getting this is the Rush reference as well...


That makes things a bit easier. You can do things traditionally where you brew the beer, then lager at 1°c for 6 weeks - 3 months and serve, try the quick lager method or ferment warm (17°c) and make a pseudo lager/Cali common. I've been trying the quick lager method and I'm quite happy with the results. The longer I leave my beer the nicer it is, although this is the case for all styles, however I'm quite impatient.

EDIT: I believe W-34/70, WY2124 and WLP830 are the same strain, interesting to see how different they come out.
Click to expand...
Amazing,

Yes I'm looking to get it as crisp and clean as I can as it will be served to people who don't really drink homebrew. Also starting early so I can give it the propped lager process.

Many thanks for the wealth of yeast knowledge.

Edit- A word
 
Cyberjip said:
Water profile and treatment.
Click to expand...

Depends on what your tap water is like, or if you're using RO water. I just work with what the forum calculator suggests after tapping in the numbers from my water report. I always treat with a Campden tablet.

Cyberjip said:
Yeast options
Click to expand...

Some debate over whether liquid yeasts are better for lager over dried. I haven't tried liquid so can't comment.

Cyberjip said:
How long to primary
Click to expand...

Until you're within a few points of terminal gravity, 3 weeks minimum if you're fermenting cold. I've got a Helles in the fridge at the moment and it's still blooping away after 12 days so I'll give it until a week on Saturday before considering taking a gravity reading.

Cyberjip said:
When and how to D-rest
Click to expand...

Raise temperature from where you're fermenting at to 18°C or so over a few days, leave it for a few days, then get it as cold as you can for a few days.

Cyberjip said:
Secondery, how long, what temp, can I do it in corny, when should I carb
Click to expand...

I don't rack to secondary, I go straight to a corny and then get it in my keezer at 2°C for a month or two.
 
For a reasonably simple Czech style pilsner like Staropramen or Urquell:

Soft water with low alkalinity, aim for about 50 - 60 ppm calcium, <20 ppm alkalinity, low sulphate, moderate chloride

100% Pilsner malt (or if you want to add 5% carapils that'll work too) to around 1.050, mash at 67C

Bittering hops of your choice followed by a 30 mins, 10 min, flame out additions of 30g each of saaz aiming for about 40 IBU total

Two packs of W34/70 or S23 yeast fermented at 10C, raise to 19C towards the end of fermentation

Lager as cold as possible for 4 weeks then bottle
 
Good stuff thanks for the info.

For the D-rest is it best to step the temp back down slowly as well or just crash it fast as possible.

Also on an experiment last night I found that I can run my fridge onto the minus, should I aim for 2°C or even colder if I can.

Cheers
 
Cyberjip said:
Good stuff thanks for the info.

For the D-rest is it best to step the temp back down slowly as well or just crash it fast as possible.

Also on an experiment last night I found that I can run my fridge onto the minus, should I aim for 2°C or even colder if I can.

Cheers
Click to expand...
Some say there may be a benefit to ramping the temperature down over a few days but I'm not sure about that. As long as you're sure fermentation is complete then I can't see any harm in crashing it. If you can get the temperature lower then go for it, but I probably wouldn't go below -1C.
 
Ok thanks very much for all the input guys.

This is what I'm currently looking at. Let me know if you see any glaring errors.

Primary for 2 weeks at 12, then slowly rise to 17 for 3ish days. Then cold crash to 0 for 3ish days to clear.

Then into keg under pressure 9 PSI
Age for 2 months.

Screenshot_20200219-205628.png


Edit. Sorry Bad picture

21L, ABV 4.65 IBU 39.9 SRM 3.5

4.6kg pilsner 2row 95.8%
0.2kg csrapils 4.2%
65g Saaz 90mins
25 Saaz 30 mins
25 Saaz 10 mins
25 Saaz 0 mins

2 packs w34/70

60 min mash 67°C 90 min boil
 
Last edited:
Cyberjip said:
Primary for 2 weeks at 12, then slowly rise to 17 for 3ish days.
Click to expand...
Don't be a slave to the clock during those first two weeks. Let the yeast be your guide. If you're checking in on it regularly then you'll know when activity starts to slow down and that's your cue to start raising the temperature for the d-rest. Looking at my records it's typically been between days 5 and 7 after pitching for me.
 
foxbat said:
Don't be a slave to the clock during those first two weeks. Let the yeast be your guide. If you're checking in on it regularly then you'll know when activity starts to slow down and that's your cue to start raising the temperature for the d-rest. Looking at my records it's typically been between days 5 and 7 after pitching for me.
Click to expand...


Ok will do
 

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