Faux Lagers

I recently read an article about using the Kveik yeast to produce lager like quality beers at warmer fermentation temperatures. So I thought I would give it a go.

Just sampled my faux pilsner and its quite lovely. I used the Lutra Kviek yeast at a fermentation temperature of 21C. After 3 weeks the fermentation was complete and I then transfered the beer into a keg. I force carbonated the beer and its now been lagering in my kegerator for 3 weeks. However, I've been sampling the beer every week and It just keeps getting better.

So no need for a dedicated fermentation fridge. It's worked so well that I plan on brewing another batch this weekend using part of the yeast cake I saved.

Has anyone else tried brewing lagers using this method before?

Cheers

I tried with Ubbe Kveik last summer. It was drinkable but far from a true lager experience. Maybe I did something wrong as I'm not an experienced brewer.

GeorgieV said:

I tried with Ubbe Kveik last summer. It was drinkable but far from a true lager experience. Maybe I did something wrong as I'm not an experienced brewer.

Click to expand...

Another recommendation with Kveik is to underpitch, which seems counter intuitive. Then let the fermented beer sit on the yeast cake for a couple of weeks. The yeast is still doing it's job cleaning up the beer. However, you still have to lager the beer a few weeks until its ready.

Cheers

You can ferment some lager yeasts at ale temps for a more authentic lager. Loads of people doing it in this thread here. If i was using kveik for this style i would overpitch to avoid ester production and keep it cleaner.

Here's a piece dealing with this issue.

GeorgieV said:

I tried with Ubbe Kveik last summer. It was drinkable but far from a true lager experience. Maybe I did something wrong as I'm not an experienced brewer.

Click to expand...

Don't beat yourself up - different people have different sensitivities to off-flavours and lagers show them up more than most styles. In particular a lot of people get a kind of tartness from kveik that gets quite off-putting. And although Bootleg Oslo (and the ...very related... WHC Ubbe) were the first "lager kveiks" to become available they seem to be the ones that most people get off-flavours from, it could just be because they're popular. Omega Lutra seems better, the new Escarpment KRISPY sounds promising but may be hard to find here, Malt Miller get the odd consignment from them.

But I'd question whether British brewers have much need for kveik lagers except at the height of the summer. Now is the perfect time to be brewing "classic" lagers - Wyeast's current seasonal releases are all lager strains.

And in fact AFAIAA all homebrew lager yeasts are Frohberg types, which have more ale DNA than the more cold-adapted Saaz lager yeasts, and Frohberg strains seem to be pretty happy at "ale" temperatures. 34/70 is a typical Frohberg and Fermentis has shown that 34/70 stays pretty neutral even at 20C. There's an extensive "warm lager" thread on HBT, although 34/70 is the default yeast, some people prefer WLP800 Pilsner and Mangrove Jack M54 Californian for their better flocculation.

So if you're new to this then I'd try one of those first, before the kveiks.

@Northern_Brewer, thank for the ideas. I have already taken advantage of the cold weather and fermented one lager with 34/70. I'm not sure if it's fully lagered but started drinking it anyway. Now I'm planning a second one which will be bottled to be consumed in the spring.

GeorgieV said:

@Northern_Brewer, thank for the ideas. I have already taken advantage of the cold weather and fermented one lager with 34/70. I'm not sure if it's fully lagered but started drinking it anyway. Now I'm planning a second one which will be bottled to be consumed in the spring.

Click to expand...

Hey Georgie,

If you’re looking for ideas, I brewed a Czech Pilsner using Mangrove Jacks California lager yeast and fermented it at a steady 20C throughout. The lager was really nice after just 1 week out of the fermenter (although it was still quite hazy at that point!).

I used very soft water (Reverse Osmosis water, 0.05g/l calcium chloride, 0.15g/l calcium sulphate). You can get something similar by just using Tesco Ashbeck water if you’re not doing any water treatment yet. I mashed with 20 litres and sparged with another 10.

The recipe is simple...

Czech Pilsner 6.3%
5Kg Pilsner malt
Mash for 75mins at 145F (62.8C)

60g Saaz leaf, AA=3.2%, 60mins, 26 IBUs

1/2 protofloc tablet at 10 mins
40g Saaz leaf, AA=3.2%, 10mins, 4 IBUs

500g of glucose, 0 mins

22 litres in FV, OG=1052
1 pack California Lager Yeast

Keg on day 12, FG=1004

GeorgieV said:

I tried with Ubbe Kveik last summer. It was drinkable but far from a true lager experience. Maybe I did something wrong as I'm not an experienced brewer.

Click to expand...

This was my recent experience with Ebbergarden, although I wasn't necessarily bothered about achieving a perfect Lager, more brewing something to reveal what characteristics of the yeast would come through. Too fruity, but nice in its own way.

I tried this last summer as well, distinctly ale like results even when over pitched at cool temperatures. Quite nice but not anywhere close to a lager. 34/70 however is very lager like even at 18-20C. It's slow but pretty much foolproof for getting the style right.

Hazelwood Brewery said:

I mashed with 20 litres and sparged with another 10.

Czech Pilsner 6.3%
60g Saaz leaf, AA=3.2%, 60mins, 26 IBUs
40g Saaz leaf, AA=3.2%, 10mins, 4 IBUs

Click to expand...

And (assuming final volume of 20l) dilute with 11.5 litres of water to get 4% cooking lager!

Northern_Brewer said:

And (assuming final volume of 20l) dilute with 11.5 litres of water to get 4% cooking lager!

Click to expand...

Sorry, you’re going to have to explain that one to me. Are you saying California lager yeast produces something only good enough for cooking?

No - no slur intended, just a name for "ordinary" lager and a nod to the fact that the process for making things like Carling involved brewing high-gravity with the help of sugars, and then diluting to get the 4% you buy in the shops.

This may be a good thread to ask if anybody can share experience with CML Hell yeast. Is it to be considered faux lager yeast? I'm looking at the temperature range they specify 12 to 21 C - it doesn't look like typical lager yeast. I'm going to give it a go anyway but will be interested to read other people's experience.

CML Hell is bottom fermenting so I think it is a proper lager yeast.

GeorgieV said:

This may be a good thread to ask if anybody can share experience with CML Hell yeast. Is it to be considered faux lager yeast? I'm looking at the temperature range they specify 12 to 21 C - it doesn't look like typical lager yeast. I'm going to give it a go anyway but will be interested to read other people's experience.

Click to expand...

I am not the best person to ask I have not used that and I tend to find the CML yeasts substandard and have a funny flavour. But that might just be me.

however there was a thread here

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/crossmyloof-hell-lager-yeast-opinions.84053/
A lot of people seem to think it would be the right style

So I think you will be alright to use it!

Markk said:

CML Hell is bottom fermenting so I think it is a proper lager yeast.

Click to expand...

That was a half-useful metric 50 years ago, but since conicals became the norm in commercial breweries it's no longer particularly true. Indeed, my impression is that homebrewers are so used to ale yeasts adapted to life in conicals that they get surprised with something like Lallemand Verdant which still retains some top-fermenting character.

Making dried yeast is complicated so the likes of CML don't make their own, they just repackage dried yeast from other people. The name suggests CML Hell is German, and the wide temperature range suggests it is probably just 34/70.

I used to use EDME and Doric ale yeasts to make lager-like ales.
Worked pretty well- even for Helles style beers.
Coopers worked, too, but didn’t attenuate very well.