A Bavarian in southern England

[Wonderwoman]

Hi there!

I just wanted to quickly introduce myself. As you have read, I'm originally from Bavaria and am living in England now. With the prices of German wheat beer being so expensive here in England, I am toying with the idea of trying my luck with a little bit of home brewing. Also I like the idea of a "clean" beer and so many of the commercial products even taste chemical or just to clean, tinny and boring.

However, I have no idea, how "successful" and drinkable a home brew is, so I am unsure how much to invest in a first setup and want to keep it as cheap as possible. I am not really into buying those kits you just add water too, I want to make my "own" brew, but am aware that as a total novice, the field of brewing can be a little complex...

I am open to any tips and tricks and guides. Has anyone been successful at brewing wheat beer?

 

[beechwood]

Hi, Welcome to the forum. What kind of quantity are you looking to brew?? ;-)

 

[MyQul]

Welcome to the forum

A good starting place to make your own beer from scratch is this thread here

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=51779

If you wanted to do a Wheat beer version, I'm sure Clibit can help you with a simple reciepe

Yet another notch on Clibits FV, methinks :-D

 

[Wonderwoman]

Thanks guys! I will have a read on my lunch break

Well, the quantity question is a good one... I am a little torn. I kind of want to do about 20l to start with. I mean, the thing is, you can't just boil it up, wait for it to cool and drink it. So I'm thinking, since it takes at least 4 weeks to actually become beer, I don't just want to do 5l. However, I haven't got a pot big enough, so was looking into different options. There are some budget boilers out there that may or may not be an option.

If the brew I make turns out to be drinkable, or even better enjoyable, I'd be happy to invest a little more, but at this stage I don't want to spend too much and then it turns out it's not something that works for me.

What would you suggest?

 

[ManseMasher]

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=54872

There's one to start off with, plenty more available!

Welcome aboard by the way!

 

[YeastFace]

Sainsbury's sell Franziskaner for 3 for £5. Erdinger and Weihenstephaner are £2.00 per bottle. I'm not sure on the prices in Germany, but that doesn't seem so expensive to me.

In my early days I made a dunkelweizen from wheat dried malt extract, some dark steeped grain (I made do with cold-steeped black, but Caramunich or Carafa Special would have been better) some Hallertauer hops and some Mangrove Jacks Bavarian wheat yeast. Was very refreshing, but probably too dark for the style.

What equipment do you already have? Do you own a large stock pot?

 

[Wonderwoman]

Sainsbury's sell Franziskaner for 3 for £5. Erdinger and Weihenstephaner are £2.00 per bottle. I'm not sure on the prices in Germany, but that doesn't seem so expensive to me.

Well, depending on the brand you can get a wheat beer (cheap one but tasty!) from 50C a litre, or a branded version for around 1.62 a litre. That's Euros, by the way!

 

[Wonderwoman]

What equipment do you already have? Do you own a large stock pot?

The biggest pot I have is a pasta pot lol So, no, haven't got a stock pot. Hm... would you suggest I start off with a smaller batch to try maybe? Although I'm not impatient, I guess in the beginning it's annoying that you won't know if it was a success for at least a month.

 

[YeastFace]

I generally do 10/11 litres, which is enough for me and enables me to experiment.

Have a read of MyQul's link. I've followed the path from Kits - Extract - Brew In A Bag - 2 vessel.

Looking back, I wish I'd have started at BIAB. If you want to do 10l, there a 20/21l pot would be sufficient.

 

[Wonderwoman]

I generally do 10/11 litres, which is enough for me and enables me to experiment.

Have a read of MyQul's link. I've followed the path from Kits - Extract - Brew In A Bag - 2 vessel.

Looking back, I wish I'd have started at BIAB. If you want to do 10l, there a 20/21l pot would be sufficient.

Yeah I had a look at the recipe, looks like a good way to start! I'm beginning to think that I should do less than 20l to start with. I think it's the best option.

Do you have more than one brew on the go then if you do "just" 10l?

I want to start with wheat beer, it may not be the simplest, but it's what is "least available" here, but I wold also like to try some lagers later on, one blonde and a dark one, I'm thinking. Lots of time to think about I guess. :)

What I've been wondering... I've seen brewing sugar and the like online, but am not sure what it really is and if you need it. I've also heard to add a little sugar in the end before bottling to create a nice fizz. Is that right? How do I know how much to add and does it have to be a certain type of sugar (like you would use a certain type of yeast depending on the beer)?

 

[YeastFace]

I try to brew the same day that I'm bottling a previous brew - keeps me in decent supply. I also have a few 5l demijohns (well, water bottles ;-)) which I do from time to time in between for more experimental stuff.

I think wheat beers are fairly simple. If you're doing extract, you can just use wheat dried malt extract (usually 55% pale malt, 45% wheat), if you decide to do Brew In A Bag then 50% Pilsner, 50% Wheat Malt is fairly traditional and straight-forward. You may like to add some Munich or Vienna for a bit of colour and maltier taste.

Before bottling, you want to add sugar - as you say this creates carbonation. You can use brewing sugar, dried malt extract, honey etc. I tend to use plain old table sugar. As weizen are quite highly carbonated styles, you'll need more than say an English Bitter.. There are plenty of calculators only, I use http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

If you like, I'll knock up a fairly straight foward 10L Brew In a Bag recipe for you later on.

 

[Wonderwoman]

I try to brew the same day that I'm bottling a previous brew - keeps me in decent supply. I also have a few 5l demijohns (well, water bottles ;-)) which I do from time to time in between for more experimental stuff.

I think wheat beers are fairly simple. If you're doing extract, you can just use wheat dried malt extract (usually 55% pale malt, 45% wheat), if you decide to do Brew In A Bag then 50% Pilsner, 50% Wheat Malt is fairly traditional and straight-forward. You may like to add some Munich or Vienna for a bit of colour and maltier taste.

Before bottling, you want to add sugar - as you say this creates carbonation. You can use brewing sugar, dried malt extract, honey etc. I tend to use plain old table sugar. As weizen are quite highly carbonated styles, you'll need more than say an English Bitter.. There are plenty of calculators only, I use http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

If you like, I'll knock up a fairly straight forward 10L Brew In a Bag recipe for you later on.

Good stuff! Thank you! Yes, a few recipes would be good :) I kinda of looked at some grains and hops already (was thinking about lager malt, but am unsure as to what wheat grain and maybe some tettnang or hallertau hops for now).

 

[beechwood]

I use a 13.5 lt pot which is fine for 9-10 lt batches. (depending on how much you lose to evaporation, I lose about 2.33 lts over the space of 60 mins boil) You could do a partial mash which is like 50/50 grains and extract, that way you could get 18-20 lts with the same equipment.


:drink:

 

[YeastFace]

Ok, hope this is helpful.

Equipment


Sanitiser (Sanitise everything that touches the post-boil wort)
21l Stock Pot
Mashing bag (Commercial ones are available - I used the Youngs Large Mashing Bag, others make their own)
Thermometer
Colander
Hydrometer
Trial jar
Wine thief/turkey baster
Weighing scales
Sieve
Whisk

For Fermentation:
15l fermentation bucket
Rubber bung
Airlock/Blow-Off tube

For bottling:
Bottling Wand (Either attached to a siphon, or to a dedicate bottling bucket)
Bottles
Bottle Caps
Bottle Capper
Sugar

Recipe (This is based on my equipment, so expect some variation)

Batch size - 11l (this should give you around 9.5-10 after fermentation
Boil time - 60 minutes
Target Efficiency - 70%
Estimated OG - 1.050
Estimated FG - 1.012
Estimated ABV - 4.96%
Estimated IBU - 12.95

1.25kg Pilsner Malt (50%)
1.25kg Wheat Malt (50%)

Mash schedule - Single Infusion mash @ 67°c

Yeast - Danstar Munich (Similar dry yeast for Weizen are Safbrew WB-06 and Mangrove Jacks Bavarian Wheat)

Hops - 14g Hallertauer Hersbrucker

Method

Place the mashing bag inside your stock pot. (I also used a metal microwave tray as a false bottom to ensure that the bag was not melted by the bottom of the pot)

Fill the pot with16.75l of water and heat to the target strike temp (69.9°c).

When this temperature is reached, pour in your crushed grain slowly. Continuously stir to ensure there are no lumps. Check temperature again. It should be around 67°c, if higher, slowly add some cold water until the temp is reduced, if lower, then gently heat up.

Once the desired temp is reached, put the lid on and wrap in a sleeping bag, coats, duvet - anything to keep it warm. Keep it wrapped up for 60 minutes.

Once the 60 minutes has finished, lift the bag from the pot and place on top of a colander. Allow the liquid to flow from the bag back into the pot. You should end up with 14l of wort. You may wish to check the gravity at this stage, it should be 1.039.

Bring to the boil. Once you have a hot break (this will be visible by foam rising to the service, you may also see stuff floating in the wort - this is normal) add the hops and set an alarm for 60 minutes, ensure that the boil is a rolling one and not too vigorous.

During this 60 minutes, you’ll want to keep an eye on the boil to ensure it doesn’t boil over. You can also use this time to sanitise your sieve, whisk, fermenting bucket, bung, airlock or blow-off tube, thermometer and turkey baster. Remove your yeast from the fridge and sanitise this along with some scissors.

Once the 60 minutes are up, you want to cool as soon as possible. Fill your sink with ice water and add the pot. Change the water and add ice as needed. It may take over an hour to bring down to temp. Once it’s about 20°c (check with sanitised thermometer) remove from the sink. Take a sample using your (sanitised) turkey baster and test the gravity. It should be 1.050

Place the (sanitised) sieve over the (sanitised) fermenter. Pour the wort through the sieve and into the fermenter. You may want to leave the last litre or so in the pot as this will be break material.

Take your (sanitised) whisk and whisk like mad. Cut open the (sanitised) yeast packet with your (sanitised) scissors and sprinkle this on top of the foam. Attach the (sanitised) lid and affix the (sanitised) airlock/blow-off tube.

Ferment at 20°c for 10 days, or until gravity is stable. Then bottle.

 

[Wonderwoman]

Wow, amazing, thank you! Just need to go and get a pot and bucket now!

I read to only add the hops for the last 30 mins of the boil, I think you add them earlier than that, right?

Regarding wrapping the stock pot... Do you turn the hob off for that part or leave it on on a low heat to keep it at 67°C? I've got a gas hob, so any wrapping would be tricky :P

Oh, and how much sugar do you add to the bottles once the brew is done? Do you add it to the bottle or the wort JUST before bottling to make sure every bottle is equal?

 

[Wonderwoman]

Ok, hope this is helpful.

Equipment


Sanitiser (Sanitise everything that touches the post-boil wort)
21l Stock Pot
Mashing bag (Commercial ones are available - I used the Youngs Large Mashing Bag, others make their own)
Thermometer
Colander
Hydrometer
Trial jar
Wine thief/turkey baster
Weighing scales
Sieve
Whisk

For Fermentation:
15l fermentation bucket
Rubber bung
Airlock/Blow-Off tube

For bottling:
Bottling Wand (Either attached to a siphon, or to a dedicate bottling bucket)
Bottles
Bottle Caps
Bottle Capper
Sugar

Recipe (This is based on my equipment, so expect some variation)

Batch size - 11l (this should give you around 9.5-10 after fermentation
Boil time - 60 minutes
Target Efficiency - 70%
Estimated OG - 1.050
Estimated FG - 1.012
Estimated ABV - 4.96%
Estimated IBU - 12.95

1.25kg Pilsner Malt (50%)
1.25kg Wheat Malt (50%)

Mash schedule - Single Infusion mash @ 67°c

Yeast - Danstar Munich (Similar dry yeast for Weizen are Safbrew WB-06 and Mangrove Jacks Bavarian Wheat)

Hops - 14g Hallertauer Hersbrucker

Method

Place the mashing bag inside your stock pot. (I also used a metal microwave tray as a false bottom to ensure that the bag was not melted by the bottom of the pot)

Fill the pot with16.75l of water and heat to the target strike temp (69.9°c).

When this temperature is reached, pour in your crushed grain slowly. Continuously stir to ensure there are no lumps. Check temperature again. It should be around 67°c, if higher, slowly add some cold water until the temp is reduced, if lower, then gently heat up.

Once the desired temp is reached, put the lid on and wrap in a sleeping bag, coats, duvet - anything to keep it warm. Keep it wrapped up for 60 minutes.

Once the 60 minutes has finished, lift the bag from the pot and place on top of a colander. Allow the liquid to flow from the bag back into the pot. You should end up with 14l of wort. You may wish to check the gravity at this stage, it should be 1.039.

Bring to the boil. Once you have a hot break (this will be visible by foam rising to the service, you may also see stuff floating in the wort - this is normal) add the hops and set an alarm for 60 minutes, ensure that the boil is a rolling one and not too vigorous.

During this 60 minutes, you’ll want to keep an eye on the boil to ensure it doesn’t boil over. You can also use this time to sanitise your sieve, whisk, fermenting bucket, bung, airlock or blow-off tube, thermometer and turkey baster. Remove your yeast from the fridge and sanitise this along with some scissors.

Once the 60 minutes are up, you want to cool as soon as possible. Fill your sink with ice water and add the pot. Change the water and add ice as needed. It may take over an hour to bring down to temp. Once it’s about 20°c (check with sanitised thermometer) remove from the sink. Take a sample using your (sanitised) turkey baster and test the gravity. It should be 1.050

Place the (sanitised) sieve over the (sanitised) fermenter. Pour the wort through the sieve and into the fermenter. You may want to leave the last litre or so in the pot as this will be break material.

Take your (sanitised) whisk and whisk like mad. Cut open the (sanitised) yeast packet with your (sanitised) scissors and sprinkle this on top of the foam. Attach the (sanitised) lid and affix the (sanitised) airlock/blow-off tube.

Ferment at 20°c for 10 days, or until gravity is stable. Then bottle.

Could I substitute some of the wheat malt with carawheat and if so, how much? Not sure how "sweet" it is and don't want a dark Hefeweizen this time around, but something with a nice rich colour (bit darker than normal ones maybe) and s slight caramel taste - just something that is a bit different from the "normal" Hefeweizen.

So for 10l you use one sachet of dried yeast?

 

[YeastFace]

You add hops at different stages, depending on the style.
60 - 90 minutes are bittering hops
20 - 30 minutes are flavour hops
Less than 20 are aroma hops.

With a weizen, you don't want much (if any) flavour or aroma hops, so only the 60 minute addition is needeed.

Yep, remove the pot from the heat source before wrapping. Make sure it is sitting on a stable surface.

I batch prime, which means I add all of the sugar needed for the batch to the bucket (as a sugar solution) If you're doing this, I'd recommend getting a second bucket - I have a 10 l with tap and little bottler attached for this purpose. Others add the sugar to each bottle using a funnel.

 

[YeastFace]

Could I substitute some of the wheat malt with carawheat and if so, how much? Not sure how "sweet" it is and don't want a dark Hefeweizen this time around, but something with a nice rich colour (bit darker than normal ones maybe) and s slight caramel taste - just something that is a bit different from the "normal" Hefeweizen.

So for 10l you use one sachet of dried yeast?

I've never used it myself, but having had a read it sounds perfect for what you suggest. 3-5% seems about right, so that means swapping out 75-125g of the malted wheat for the Carawheat. Alternatively you could swap the Pilsner malt for Munich or Vienna for colour.

One thing to consider in the future is using 5% or so of melanoidin malt to help achieve the correct flavour with a single infusion mash. Weizen are traditionaly decoction mashed (this involved taking our a portion of the mash and boiling, then returning to the main mash). I've never attempted decoction mashing, but the melanoidin addition is meant to be a decent substitute.

Yes, I use a whole pack.

 

[Tony1951]

I think Wonderwoman is right to go the grain way rather than using canned kits. She will get much better beer that way. I look forward to reading of the beer making exploits she get into.

Not sure if her question about how much bottling sugar to add was answered. Maybe I missed it. I am now going for about 6gm/litre for bottled beer. Make a sugar solution with boiled water to dissolve your bottling sugar. For a 10l brew about 250ml of boiled water should be fine. Place the sugar solution into a bottling bucket and then syphon the brew into it avoiding splashing and getting air into the beer. At this stage, air is to be avoided as it can spoil beer. It is quite different to the time before fermentation when you need air in the wort to help the yeast. Now you don't want it. Gently stir the sugar solution into the beer. To get the beer into the bottles, a tap is handy on the bottling bucket. You might have to drill a hole to fit one and fit a tap. You can use a plastic tube attached to the tap and place this into the bottom of the bottle, then open the tap and fill the bottle before turning off. This fills bottles without adding air through splashing. If you can't fit a tap, you can use a funnel, but will get air in the beer. It will keep better if you bottle without aerating the beer. Seal the bottles and keep in the warm (19 - 22C) for a couple of weeks, then cool and drink.

You can probably start drinking your beer with a month of starting it. Two weeks in the fermentation bucket and two weeks in the bottle is a sort of minimum. It will probably do better if you can wait longer - but I understand your impatience.

If you want recipes, there are a few wheat beers in the Greg Hughes book 'Home Brew Beer'. This is on sale on Amazon at a ridiculous price of about £3. It's a nice book with a lot of good beer recipes in it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_3pn8tt130c_b

 

[Wonderwoman]

I think Wonderwoman is right to go the grain way rather than using canned kits. She will get much better beer that way. I look forward to reading of the beer making exploits she get into.

Not sure if her question about how much bottling sugar to add was answered. Maybe I missed it. I am now going for about 6gm/litre for bottled beer. Make a sugar solution with boiled water to dissolve your bottling sugar. For a 10l brew about 250ml should be fine. Place this in a bottling bucket and then syphon the brew into it avoiding splashing and getting air into the beer. At this stage, air is to be avoided as it can spoil beer. It is quite different to the time before fermentation when you need air in the wort to help the yeast. Now you don't want it. Gently stir the sugar solution into the beer. To get the beer into the bottles, a tap is handy on the bottling bucket. You might have to drill a hole to fit one and fit a tap. You can use a plastic tube attached to the tap and place this into the bottom of the bottle, then open the tap and fill the bottle before turning off. This fills bottles without adding air through splashing. If you can't fit a tap, you can use a funnel, but will get air in the beer. It will keep better if you bottle without aerating the beer. Seal the bottles and keep in the warm (19 - 22C) for a couple of weeks, then cool and drink.

You can probably start drinking your beer with a month of starting it. Two weeks in the fermentation bucket and two weeks in the bottle is a sort of minimum. It will probably do better if you can wait longer - but I understand your impatience.

If you want recipes, there are a few wheat beers in the Greg Hughes book 'Home Brew Beer'. This is on sale on Amazon at a ridiculous price of about £3. It's a nice book with a lot of good beer recipes in it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_3pn8tt130c_b

Thank you, Tony! So you would dissolve 6 grams/l in 250ml of water and add it? So for 10L about 60 grams?