Advice for recipes from 'Brew Your Own British Real Ale'

[NigelB]

Hi
I'm new to home brewing having only done 3 brews so far. The first was a Muntons kit, and was a disaster...95% of it got chucked down the drain!
The following 2 were more successful...in as much as they were drinkable! Both of these recipes were from the Graham Wheeler book 'Brew your own British real ale'. One recipe was for an 'Old Speckled Hen' type beer, and the other was for a 'Timothy Taylor Landlord' type beer. (See recipes below).
In both instances I used the liquid malt extract method (using Neale's Premium Grade LME light) and both used Safale s-04 yeast. Water used was just tap water.
I'd like to improve on them, especially the Timothy Taylor...it needs more hop flavour and smell. Should I be adding some more hops in later during fermentation (dry hopping), or would I get better results using a different yeast...or even using bottled water. I'd like to stick with malt extract brewing for now, but I'm confused as to what to do to change the taste/aroma. I was wondering if anybody else has tried these 2 recipes using malt extract brewing and if they were more successful? Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Brewed_Force]

The TT Landlord recipe has 50g bittering hops and 16g flavouring hops.
From my experience I use less of the former and more of the latter.
Typically for a 10L extract brew I use 10g medium AA (e.g. Target) for 60 minutes and 10g of say, Fuggles for 10 minutes.
I also boil my steeping liqor only, not my extract, which gives a higher extraction rate.
Try putting another 10g hops for 10 minutes next time and see what happens.

 

[trueblue]

Timothy Taylor use there own strain of yeast that has a major effect on the finished beer. Wyeast produce a strain reputed to be the Taylor strain. Personally I would look for a better yeast than SO-4

 

[ACBEV]

I'd recommend you do two basic things to improve your next brew...

No. 1... Water... To keep things very simple and not getting into water chemistry at all. Use 2/3rd bottled water and 1/3rd tap water. You can buy 5L bottled spring water from most good supermarkets. Tesco Ashbeck is a good choice, but other brands are just as good. A 5L bottle will cost just over 1 quid.

No. 2... Yeast... Have a go with Wyeast West Yorkshire Ale Yeast or Wyeast London Ale III yeast. Any of these two yeasts will do a good job...

http://www.wyeastlab.com/yeast-strain/west-yorkshire-ale
http://www.wyeastlab.com/yeast-strain/london-ale-iii

 

[Dutto]

Welcome to the Forum.:thumb:

 

[Sandimas]

Welcome! First off, that book is really good and the recipes are sound, so you're off to a good start. I've made many recipes out of that book, both Extract and AG, Exmoor Gold is another good one to try.

If you want more hoppiness, add more late hops as suggested above. Don't be afraid to be bold, you could easily double that late addition of Styrian Goldings, maybe even do a hop steep after the boil: let it cool for 10mins and add, say, another 16g of Styrian Goldings steeped for 30mins.

Another thing that I've only recently picked up on is that hop AA is variable per batch. The recipe is spec'd for the hops the author had at the time, the ones you buy today will probably have a slightly different AA: have a look on the packet. It won't be so much a factor for the late hops, but you may find you're getting too much / too little bitterness if this is the case with the boil hops. Nowadays I always plug the recipe into software such as Brewmate, enter the actual AA of the hops I have, then adjust the hop quantities to achieve the bitterness IBUs of the recipe.

Finally, I'm not familiar with the brand of LME you use but quite a few of us on here have had taste issues with LME over the years, which some think could be down to the age of the product - we haven't really been able to pin it down. Some brews are great, some not. I've switched to the dried stuff DME/spraymalt and have had much more consistent results.

Safale S04 is my go-to "house yeast" so it's a good choice to start with. Personally, I've tried a variety of dried and liquid yeast and haven't really been able to notice much difference, but that could be my taste buds.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
Welcome to the forum.
You are trying to improve hop flavour and aroma - I assume that your beer is OK with "bitterness" i.e. you don't need advice on bittering hops.
The following advice has been collected from various blogs and research articles that I found online, and there may be some disagreement from fellow homebrewers.
The rule of thumb seems to be: add a hop tea for flavour, add dry hops for aroma.
Your hop additions would best be added in the very last stage of fermentation - vigorous fermentation can "strip out" hop oils.
Use boiled water that has cooled to 60°C to make the hop tea. Dry hop for no more than 4 days, although about 50% of the oils are extracted during day 1.

 

[Clint]

How much hops should be used to make a hop tea? Also what’s the best method?

Cheers

Clint

 

[terrym]

Many on here use mains water to brew with, but there are some that use bottled water. I can only assume that is because their tap water is not very nice to taste or smell, perhaps full of chlorine or chloramines or it tastes earthy; it all depends on the ultimate water source which obviously varies across the UK. And unless they have their own well, most breweries in the UK will use mains water to brew with, but they may have to treat it to get the chemistry right for the style of beer they are brewing. So my advice is to stay with tap water unless you would not normally drink it straight from the tap without a second thought.
As far as changing the hop profile of your beer I would have thought changing the hop additions would be the first thing to look at before you change other things. So for increased hop aroma from your beer that is normally achieved by dry hopping although in my experience some hop types are better than others in providing aroma. But for your TT clone I suggest you use 50g Styrian Goldings, which has worked for me on beers I have done, and is in keeping with the beer itself.

 

[terrym]

How much hops should be used to make a hop tea? Also what’s the best method?

If I am going to make up a hop tea (I only use pellets) I sterilise a jug then add the hops then pour water at about 85*C over the hops. I have found that 100ml of water is about right for every 10g of pellets, more water will start to dilute the brew, less will mean you have a porridge and the hop oils won't be extracted. I then cover and allow to cool to room temperature. What I do then is to chuck the lot into the FV, effectively 'wet hopping' and then leave it as I would for a dry hop, since it seems a shame to lose the remaining hoppy goodness still present in the hops. And my rule of thumb is to use 50g hops for hop teas or dry hopping 20+litre brews, unless I have used the hop before and I can adjust the quantity accordingly. The only time I became unstuck with this was when I used 50g Admiral to use them up, and it was far too much, and took months to mellow out.

 

[GerritT]

If you choose bottled water over tap water, you could pick .5 L bottles of water. That way you'll have plenty empty bottles for bottling time.

 

[Bigcol49]

How much hops should be used to make a hop tea? Also what’s the best method?

Hi!
I have a dedicated cafetière for making hop teas. I don't like to put the hop pellet debris into the beer because I usually add the tea as I am bottling/kegging. I allow the boiled water to cool below 64°C simply because myrcene "boils off" above that temperature.
I suppose the temperature isn't as important with hops with a low myrcene content.

 

[trueblue]

Safale S04 is my go-to "house yeast" so it's a good choice to start with. Personally, I've tried a variety of dried and liquid yeast and haven't really been able to notice much difference, but that could be my taste buds.

Sorry but totally disagree. A yeast is responsible for at least 60-70% of the taste profile so yeast choice should be your first consideration when brewing a beer. And I think SO-4 is probably the worst yeast on the market.
Several years ago while on holiday I met a brewer from TT also on holiday. Over the week we had a few beers together and he maintained the three things that made their beers as good as they are was the yeast is their own unique strain they have maintained as long as any one can remember, their water is taken from a local well and they only use golden promise malt. I offered him money to get me some yeast and send to me but he said it was more than his job was worth. I would have thought the Wyeast was very close but may not be the exact yeast.

 

[NigelB]

Many thanks for all your replies. It's all been very helpful. I'll have a go at changing one thing at a time so that I know what effect each has. I'll start with the additional hops and then maybe the different yeast, and lastly the water-as the water from our mains generally tastes ok. I'll also look into swapping the LME for a DME.
One further question. The batch I made as per the recipe was for 23L. While I'm still experimenting with ingredients, it might be worth me reducing the batch to say 10L. Can I just proportionally alter the ingredients (but keep the boiling times etc), or doesn't that equate well? If not, does it mean I have to work it out using some brewing software??

 

[terrym]

Many thanks for all your replies. It's all been very helpful. I'll have a go at changing one thing at a time so that I know what effect each has. I'll start with the additional hops and then maybe the different yeast, and lastly the water-as the water from our mains generally tastes ok. I'll also look into swapping the LME for a DME.
One further question. The batch I made as per the recipe was for 23L. While I'm still experimenting with ingredients, it might be worth me reducing the batch to say 10L. Can I just proportionally alter the ingredients (but keep the boiling times etc), or doesn't that equate well? If not, does it mean I have to work it out using some brewing software??

A prorate should be fine in my view, however I wouldn't bother changing the yeast quantity although the cognescenti might disagree on that.

 

[GerritT]

One further question. The batch I made as per the recipe was for 23L. While I'm still experimenting with ingredients, it might be worth me reducing the batch to say 10L. Can I just proportionally alter the ingredients (but keep the boiling times etc), or doesn't that equate well? If not, does it mean I have to work it out using some brewing software??

Why not go for 11.5 litres? Every amount can be halved that way.

 

[NigelB]

Cool. I'll give that a go. I just wasn't sure if it would work proportionately....for instance some food recipes don't always work that way, so at least I feel confident to try it now. Cheers.

 

[Sandimas]

And I think SO-4 is probably the worst yeast on the market.

What dry yeast would you recommend as an alternative (I prefer dried yeasts)?

I know what you're saying about the flavour contribution of yeast, I've read it many times, but personally I've not been able to taste the difference that much. Can you point me to a yeast where I'd really notice the difference?

 

[Dutto]

What dry yeast would you recommend as an alternative (I prefer dried yeasts)?

..........

Personally, my "go to" yeast for all beers is Wilco Ale Yeast and for when I am going to lager anything at low temperature I use Youngs Lager Yeast.

My reasons are simple:

1. They work.
2. They are easily obtainable.
3. They can be stored on the shelf ready for use.
4. They can be used dry, rehydrated or as a yeast starter with very little additional work.

Enjoy!

 

[trueblue]

What dry yeast would you recommend as an alternative (I prefer dried yeasts)?

I know what you're saying about the flavour contribution of yeast, I've read it many times, but personally I've not been able to taste the difference that much. Can you point me to a yeast where I'd really notice the difference?

One of the big advantages of live yeast is the variety you have to chose from and each one is quite unique. I am the wrong person to recommend a dried yeast as I would only use one in an emergency so have only tried a few in over 40 years of brewing and have never found one that compares with live yeast. Culturing from commercial bottle conditioned beers is another alternative and if you were to say brew the Fullers beers from the book using one of their bottles it guarantees the same yeast.