AG#7 Czech Pilsner (Greg Hughes)

[Lawrence22]

Really interested how this turns out as I fancy having a go at this one for ag#5 and letting it sit till BBQ season starts

I'm on 6 BBQ's so far this year with another planned for tomorrow. So I guess mine won't be ready until well into the BBQ season.

 

[matt76]

Update:

I noticed the airlock had gone quiet yesterday/today so just done a gravity check - it's already down to 1.014 (from 1.055).

In the book, Hughes gives 1.014 as the FG although I'm using Wyeast 2278 instead of 2001 and i almost always over-attenuate anyway.

I'm concerned I've missed my chance for a diacetyl rest aunsure...., but nevertheless I've moved it from the garage at 12degC to room temperature in brewers corner - maybe leave it there until the weekend and then I'll chuck it in the shed to lager.

Tasted nice enough - i definitely got a hint of banana loaf though!

 

[matt76]

Well, somewhat to my surprise, it's still bubbling away* happily at room temperature in brewers corner.

(* only now and then mind)

God knows where the gravity is - presumably into negative figures by now!

I'm figuring check the gravity at the weekend and assuming it's somewhere around 1.010 then transfer to secondary and stick it in the cryogenic lagering chamber* until approximately spring.

(* shed)

 

[foxbat]

Hi Matt, have you tried a sneaky bottle of this yet?

 

[matt76]

Hi Matt, have you tried a sneaky bottle of this yet?

Nope - it's still sat in the secondary FV in the cryogenic lagering chamber.

I have been out a few times in the recent mild weather to check the temperature but I'm happy enough it's not getting too warm.

It's been out there 3 or 4 weeks now, planning to leave it 6 weeks in total.

We did have some discussion on this - I thought it was here but must have been another thread - about pros and cons of whether it's ok to lager and then bottle.

From the reading I did around the web and in Palmer I'm happy enough that I can lager in secondary, bottle, and then once it's carbonated it'll be good to drink (which is not too say it won't improve further with more time in the bottle).

 

[foxbat]

Keeping it in a bulk storage vessel does somewhat remove the temptation to try it early unless you go out to the shed with a ladle!

 

[matt76]

Update:
Looking at the calendar, this has been lagering about 6 weeks now so time to start thinking about bottling (and counting empty bottles!).

There was some useful discussion in this thread about lagering, bottling and whether extra yeast is required:
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/lager-bottle-carbonating.80781/

Seems like you can get away without adding extra yeast at bottling but need to be patient while it carbonates.

 

[Nicks90]

I'm going to cheat when I bottle mine, I'm going to seed it with one grain of dried neutral yeast in each bottle

 

[matt76]

Update:

Just bottled this brew, yielded 28 x 330ml bottles so happy enough with that.

It's crisp, it's dry and it tastes good (still that hint of banana bread though, although I rather like it!)

However, one thing puzzles me - when I racked to secondary the gravity was 1.010.

At bottling it was 1.008 (before adding the sugar solution). This gives me an ABV of 6.2%, rather more robust then I'd ideally like.

According to Brewers Friend that means the attenuation (Wyeast 2278) is a whopping 83%!!!

In every other redirect the beer is fine so I'm not complaining, I'm just rather surprised.

Can anyone offer any explanation?

Cheers,

Matt

 

[foxbat]

Update:

Just bottled this brew, yielded 28 x 330ml bottles so happy enough with that.

It's crisp, it's dry and it tastes good (still that hint of banana bread though, although I rather like it!)

However, one thing puzzles me - when I racked to secondary the gravity was 1.010.

At bottling it was 1.008 (before adding the sugar solution). This gives me an ABV of 6.2%, rather more robust then I'd ideally like.

According to Brewers Friend that means the attenuation (Wyeast 2278) is a whopping 83%!!!

In every other redirect the beer is fine so I'm not complaining, I'm just rather surprised.

Can anyone offer any explanation?

Cheers,

Matt

The attenuation figures given by the yeast manufacturer are just a guide. Your process and equipment are so much more important. I just kegged my Czech Pils using 2278 today at 1.005 for an apparent attenuation of 88%. Am I concerned? No not in the slightest, in fact I'm delighted because a crisp finish is exactly in line with how all my beers end up and is exactly how I like them.

 

[matt76]

Update:

FINALLY! It's ready to drink!

ABV = 6.2%
SRM = 3.5
IBU = 29.3

I've tried a few bottles of this now - I left it some time to carbonate and condition after bottling, not sure this was strictly necessary but I figured I've waited this long so why rush it now. In the bottle the yeast that was transferred has settled out nicely leaving crystal clear beer.....

.....and then I put in in the fridge - yep, you guessed it chill haze

I've left a few bottles in the fridge for ~2 weeks to see if the haze will settle out, but alas no luck there so I'm left with cloudy lager Honestly, it drinks fine and doesn't taste like it's 6.2% - I'm still getting a hint of banana bread but I rather like it. My mate thought there was a hint of marzipan.

The chill haze is just a minor annoyance but it's perfectly drinkable and enjoyable otherwise. I've made some improvements to my process such as very fine weave nylon grain/hop bags to filter out more of the crud, especially hops. My AG#10 Pale Ale for example doesn't seem to suffer from chill haze although I'm still thinking I need to double down and make more efforts to reduce it - for example to make sure I'm not transferring all the cold break material to the FV.

Would I make a lager again? Well, although this is drinkable I can't honestly say it's extra special, certainly I don't think it's as good as the beer I had in Prague last year that inspired this brew. And I think there are ales I could brew more easily and drink sooner and still enjoy cold. In any case, without temperature control I'd have to wait until next winter anyway - so, yeah, maybe, we'll see, but I'd probably do something a bit more radical such as try a decoction mash.

Cheers,

Matt

 

[An Ankoù]

Update:

FINALLY! It's ready to drink!

ABV = 6.2%
SRM = 3.5
IBU = 29.3

View attachment 18891

I've tried a few bottles of this now - I left it some time to carbonate and condition after bottling, not sure this was strictly necessary but I figured I've waited this long so why rush it now. In the bottle the yeast that was transferred has settled out nicely leaving crystal clear beer.....

.....and then I put in in the fridge - yep, you guessed it chill haze

I've left a few bottles in the fridge for ~2 weeks to see if the haze will settle out, but alas no luck there so I'm left with cloudy lager Honestly, it drinks fine and doesn't taste like it's 6.2% - I'm still getting a hint of banana bread but I rather like it. My mate thought there was a hint of marzipan.

The chill haze is just a minor annoyance but it's perfectly drinkable and enjoyable otherwise. I've made some improvements to my process such as very fine weave nylon grain/hop bags to filter out more of the crud, especially hops. My AG#10 Pale Ale for example doesn't seem to suffer from chill haze although I'm still thinking I need to double down and make more efforts to reduce it - for example to make sure I'm not transferring all the cold break material to the FV.

Would I make a lager again? Well, although this is drinkable I can't honestly say it's extra special, certainly I don't think it's as good as the beer I had in Prague last year that inspired this brew. And I think there are ales I could brew more easily and drink sooner and still enjoy cold. In any case, without temperature control I'd have to wait until next winter anyway - so, yeah, maybe, we'll see, but I'd probably do something a bit more radical such as try a decoction mash.

Cheers,

Matt

Czech lager, especially, Urquell is one of my favourites. I've had a few attempts, and while the product has been eminently drinkable, it's not the same. I'm convinced the malt profile comes from the triple decoction and that's what I'm going to try next winter. I've seen some literature saying that this can be simulated by adding a bit of melanoidin malt. I might try that, too.

 

[matt76]

Czech lager, especially, Urquell is one of my favourites. I've had a few attempts, and while the product has been eminently drinkable, it's not the same. I'm convinced the malt profile comes from the triple decoction and that's what I'm going to try next winter. I've seen some literature saying that this can be simulated by adding a bit of melanoidin malt. I might try that, too.

There's an old post (from 2008!) here by Aleman that says exactly that - well with a read (and the subsequent posts). I'd certainly be inclined to follow his method more closely if I did it again (if nothing else, that post inspired me to add more hops than the original GH recipe)

 

[foxbat]

It's a bit hard to tell from the photo but yours does look quite a bit darker than mine. That, and your mention of a slight marzipan flavour does hint that you may have had some oxidation during bottling or storage.

[edit] I think storage is a likely culprit. Plastic is oxygen permeable to a varying degree depending on its composition. There's a good thread here with some facts and figures. I ferment in sealed stainless steel and go from there straight to a stainless keg that gets purged immediately with CO2 so perhaps that's why I don't get oxidation?

 

[matt76]

Thanks @foxbat - I don't think it's too dark for a lager, but certainly it's at the darker end of the lager spectrum.

For lagering I transferred to a secondary plastic FV which was stored in the shed for 6 weeks - so yeah, you could be right about oxidation. It tastes fine for now but I guess I'd best get drinking as I guess it'll not keep so long if there been oxidation.

Lesson learned for next time though

 

[An Ankoù]

Lesson learned for next time though

Hang on Matt, any good excuse for drinking the stuff as quickly as you can is surely worth its weight in gold.

 

[matt76]

Well, putting my engineers hat on for a moment, I would posit that the permeability of any container must be finite and non zero. So in the limit that time tends to infinity it follows that all my beer will oxidise.

So I best just drink the lot to be on the safe side - well, it is Saturday and a bank holiday weekend!