All-in-One recommendations for full volume mashing

[YeastFace]

Morning all,

I'm looking to replace my three vessel HERMS setup with an AIO system. I know there's users of the main ones on the forum so was looking for pros/cons of each. Ideally I will full volume mash as the goal here is to streamline my kit.

Having a young daughter means I need brewdays (and especially the cleaning up) to be as short as possible.

I loved building and tinkering with my setup and I'm very proud of what I built but I need something a little less hands-on due to family life.

Requirements

11l minimum brew size (I do 9.5 batches of stronger/experimental beers), 21l maximum brew size (I like vatiety so will only have one keg of the same beer at a time).

Step mashing capability. I am mostly brewing Belgian and French styles these days so a controller with memory for steps is a must.

Easy to clean or CIP functionality.

FVM - I do not want any additional sparge heaters and will FVM for simplicity.

Cost - This is pretty much my only hobby which requires money and it keeps me out of the pub. I'd say £500-£1000 so Brewtools, Braumeisters are out of the question.

I am gravitating towards a G40, but given they're still relatively new I'm struggling to find any reviews that weren't promotional (not that I'm questioning anyone's integrity here).

All comments appreciated.

 

[hoppyscotty]

A G40 seems a bit large for 9.5l litre to 21 litre batch size. You can comfortably manage that with a cheaper G30 or an even cheaper Brewzilla or similar system. I comfortably do upto 25 litre batch sizes in my Brewzilla - mostly keg sized 19 litre batches, but occasionally 25 litre batches. Could squeeze a few more litres out of it if I wanted/needed to. I think any more than 28litres then I'd be looking for a larger system or the new brewzilla boil extender.

I don't think CIP cleaning is necessary. they're so easy and quick to clean. I just use hot water I capture from the chiller to fill the BZ, give it a good rinse out with the warm water, then add some washing up liquid and use a brush to give it a good scrub then a few rinses with the hose and any additional scrubbing with the brush for stubborn bits and your golden. Only a few minutes work.

 

[YeastFace]

Thanks. Do you full volume mash?

G40 minimum batch is 10l/3kg grist and with FVM there'd be ~20l of liquor in it for an 11l batch.

It probably is overkill but it would also give me option of larger batches in the future.

G30 is a possibility, although I'd have thought they'd have come down in price a bit though since the release of the newer systems. Smaller batches would need the additional pipework I think and they still have the issues with gaskets (unless I bought the rolled edge ones) so the price is adding up there. If 30l is the capacity I wouldn't be able to FVM as typically use 30l liquor and 5kg grist

Definitely more to consider though. Thanks for your input.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I was thinking more in terms of final batch size. but the possibility for larger batch sizes is always a need. I would love to do some larger batch sizes but am limited with my BZ so currently tossing up the pro's and cons of going for a larger AIO system or a 3 vessel herms setup...maybe utilising my BZ as a HLT with a removable HERMS could and add 2 vessels to keep costs down and give me the option of doing smaller batches with the BZ or larger batches with the 3 vessel system.

Would also make a Nice project too!

 

[tigertim]

G30 is a possibility, although I'd have thought they'd have come down in price a bit though since the release of the newer systems.

I had largely given up on all-grain brewing about a decade ago because of the amount of time taken and the amount of storage and set-up being incompatible with life at the time. However, late last year I happened upon a video on YouTube by homebrew griffo using a G30 and I was thinking "what manner of witchcraft is this!?". I'd been out of the hobby so long, I had no idea that the kind of compact AIO setup I'd dreamed of 10 years ago had started to become commonplace for nearly as long! So I bit the bullet, invested in the G30 after a lot of consideration and research and I've been truly bitten by the bug again.

I was also wondering why the G30 hadn't come down in price over time, but I came to the conclusion it's because it's just as good as it always was and, for people like me, I'd rather have the G30 than the G40. I'd personally never use the additional capacity of the G40 and it'd be a more awkward size and shape for me to store.

A lot of fuss is made of the silicone seals in the malt pipe of the G30 but it's been a non-issue for me as far as I'm concerned. It takes an extra 60 seconds to make sure they're properly in place so not the end of the world.

 

[MickDundee]

I have a 30L Brewdevil and make 20L batches. I can just get away with a full volume mash for beers <5%.

 

[hoppyscotty]

think the G30 hasn't come down in price...its still a product in their line up with the new models adding to their line up rather than replacing the G30. Its the G or S designation that determines the features and therefore value to the punter and that is what the pricing is based upon. So I think people holding out for a big price drop for the G30 will be disappointed. If they decide to drop or supersede that model then it might happen, but there are way too many other products in that part of the market segment, as its probably the most popular batch size that people brew, that Grainfather can't abandon it and give up sales to the competition so instead are positioning their product as the higher quality/premium option.

Not sure I understand why a 3 vessel HERMS system generates SO much more work on a brew day? I kind of envisages that you could be cleaning up the Mash tun during the boil then cleaning up the kettle after transfer, so no real difference to an AIO brewday process because as the boil is going on I'm cleaning up the malt pipe. I guess if you're looking at a very large system its different but a 10 gallon - 20 gallon setup shouldn't be any more effort than an AIO should it?

And the potential for double mashes going on simultaneously with the boil means double batches are alot quicker than they would be with an AIO setup where you just brew one batch then start again with a second batch?

 

[tigertim]

Not sure I understand why a 3 vessel HERMS system generates SO much more work on a brew day?

It's a good point, but I think this can depend entirely on the individual case; in my case it was more about the set-up than the cleaning.

My equipment all had to live in the loft and all had to be taken down piece by piece in preparation. Also, as I didn't have a HERMS, I did the mashing indoors to conserve heat (during the winter) and the boil outside to avoid filling the house with steam, which meant setting half up in the kitchen, half up in the garden and ferrying large amounts of hot liquid around. Minor things in the grand scheme of things but, on the night before a brew day, the thought of it could make all the difference to my motivation.

In the case of the G30, it sits in a cupboard in the spare room alongside the HLT. Just need to carry them both out of the back door, put the G30 on the floor, put the HLT on the garden table above it, fill up with water and away we go.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Gotcha. Thanks. I have a single garage that is too small to fit huge modern cars in so makes a nice permeant home brewery....plus the usual general clutter and **** storage!

 

[YeastFace]

It's probably marginal gains, but set-up will be a massive time saver. Cleaning one unit rather than threee should also save some time.

With a GF, for example, I could add the liquor the night before and then use the app to get up to strike temp whilst in the comfort of inside (I brew outside) and give my daughter breakfast at that time. I know I could get a timer plug for the same effect but I would feel more comfortable being able to remotely monitor the temp.

 

[tigertim]

That's exactly what I do. I fill it up with liquor the night before, crush half a campden tablet in and schedule it to be at strike temperature for 8am the next morning, for example. It then roughly calculates how long before that time it needs to start heating to get up to temperature.

 

[stripeyjoe]

G40 if you can afford it. Really flexible in terms of batch size and can comfortably fit 45 litres volume. Plus, if you fill it the night before, you can lie in bed and check the temperature on your phone to see if it’s time to get up and dough in!

 

[-Bezza-]

Having a young daughter means I need brewdays (and especially the cleaning up) to be as short as possible.

I posted a thread on this issue a little while ago. Some helpful points came up: Least distruptive brewing

Whilst working from home on Fridays, I've taken to doughing in at lunchtime, mashing through the afternoon (so a long mash but good efficiency) and then moving to the boil in the evening. I've tended to leave the clearing up until Saturday morning so that I can get into bed for 11pm on the Friday. It works well, with permission from the missus.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I can't recommend the G30 enough. I do 23L batches in it, so it should be good enough for your 21l requirements. With the micro pipework you can do small batches too

 

[YeastFace]

I can't recommend the G30 enough. I do 23L batches in it, so it should be good enough for your 21l requirements. Edith the micro pipework you can do small batches to

Thank you.

Assume that is with separate sparge though?

By the time I've added the rolled plates (although perhaps they're not really needed) and micro pipework, there's only a couple of hundred pounds difference and I'm not convinced I could FVM ~30l liquor + ~5kg grist for standard-strength beers in a G30.

 

[Agentgonzo]

The G30 has a separate sparge step unlike some others, but you can do a single infusion with the whole 30l of liquor if you want... You'll just get slightly lower extraction.

There are a few videos on YouTube about using it that are only a few minutes long and give you a really good idea of what it looks like to brew with it. But in short, my last brew used around 5kg of grain, 16l of mash water and 15l of sparge water. There was still about 3-4 inches of head space when it came to the boil which was plenty. 23l of wort went into the fermenter.

The rolled plates are an option - you can brew without them, it's just that the silicone seals on the stock plates are a pain for a lot of people. I'm obviously lucky as mine work fine and go on easily. Probably luck of the draw (I honestly don't see the need for the seals anyway)

 

[mrhardware]

No AIO systems are 100% perfect. The seals on the malt pipe plates are one of the little problems with the G30, but a Light spray of starsan or water in malt pipe and the seals go in first time. You get a nack of tilting the plate at about 35° and straighting it at bottom of malt pipe. If you don't want to have an extra sparge heater you can sparge with cold water which has been discussed on other threads just takes a little longer to get to boil. I love my G30 the ease of recipe programming and once you have chosen or input your recipe or imported from brew father its stored for later use. I to fill the night before and do water adjustments and set delay timer. Get up and ready to dough in. Once boil started and passed hot break clean maltpipe and dry it.

 

[nickjdavis]

I am gravitating towards a G40, but given they're still relatively new I'm struggling to find any reviews that weren't promotional (not that I'm questioning anyone's integrity here).

Click the following link, then at the bottom of the page there will be a link to part 2, and when you've read part 2 there will be a link to part 3. I intend to add part 4 once I've done my third brew on the G40 in early March...

Nick’s Grainfather G40 Review – Part 1 – Anglian Craft Brewers

 

[YeastFace]

Thanks for sharing, really enjoyed the writeup. Another tally in the G40 column.

 

[foxy]

Morning all,

I'm looking to replace my three vessel HERMS setup with an AIO system. I know there's users of the main ones on the forum so was looking for pros/cons of each. Ideally I will full volume mash as the goal here is to streamline my kit.

Having a young daughter means I need brewdays (and especially the cleaning up) to be as short as possible.

I loved building and tinkering with my setup and I'm very proud of what I built but I need something a little less hands-on due to family life.

Requirements

11l minimum brew size (I do 9.5 batches of stronger/experimental beers), 21l maximum brew size (I like vatiety so will only have one keg of the same beer at a time).

Step mashing capability. I am mostly brewing Belgian and French styles these days so a controller with memory for steps is a must.

Easy to clean or CIP functionality.

FVM - I do not want any additional sparge heaters and will FVM for simplicity.

Cost - This is pretty much my only hobby which requires money and it keeps me out of the pub. I'd say £500-£1000 so Brewtools, Braumeisters are out of the question.

I am gravitating towards a G40, but given they're still relatively new I'm struggling to find any reviews that weren't promotional (not that I'm questioning anyone's integrity here).

All comments appreciated.

I have the Guten which is the same as the Brew Monk, Brew Devil, etc etc I only do full volume mash, with a couple of modifications you can get 21 litres of a ABV going up to 5.5, 6.0 ABV beers at a push, and 23 litres of 4.00 to 4.6 ABV beers. Cheap, easy to use and clean. The handle holes will accommodate some 8mm all-thread this lifts the grain basket roughly 8 mm higher. Add your none fermentable at mash out gives more room for the base malt, as well as making your water treatment a breeze. Throw the top screen and overflow pipe to the tish house and give regular stirs of your mash for the first half hour.
Realistically the mash cant be measured for temperature as the Grainfather endorser said, there are pockets throughout the mash which are either colder or hotter, hence being able to stir to try to get a uniform temperature in the time frame of half an hour. The starches should be converted by then, noticeable while stirring.
The boil on these units are fantastic, not an insipid simmer, but a good rolling vigorous boil, which is really what you want.

Pushing it to its limits.

Adding the none fermentables


A hood I knocked up for about 25 AUD keeps that boil vigorous.