Angela Rayner on the Tories

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Chippy_Tea

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moto748

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As I saw someone else remark, this will probably go down better with the public than Starmer's scaredy-cat distancing fears, in much the same way as Prescott's punch.
 
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Chippy_Tea

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As I saw someone else remark, this will probably go down better with the public that Starmer's scaredy-cat distancing fears, in much the same way as Prescott's punch.

He has already shown his true colours just a tory in a red tie the sooner he is gone the better.
Sir Keir Starmer distanced himself from Angela Rayner's comments.
 

thesteve

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A reflection on society as a whole at the moment. Unfortunately people have forgotten what is and is not acceptable behaviour. I blame social media for a lot of it because it seems people think they can just say what they want with no repercussions. You are also starting to see more and more of it in football grounds. I am not particularly political at all, they are all in it for themselves and will tell you anything you want to hear in order to win votes but for a politician to use language like that says a lot more about her than who she was referring to. As for the politics, she will lose a lot more votes than what she will gain from her comments.
 

An Ankoù

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A reflection on society as a whole at the moment. Unfortunately people have forgotten what is and is not acceptable behaviour. I blame social media for a lot of it because it seems people think they can just say what they want with no repercussions. You are also starting to see more and more of it in football grounds. I am not particularly political at all, they are all in it for themselves and will tell you anything you want to hear in order to win votes but for a politician to use language like that says a lot more about her than who she was referring to. As for the politics, she will lose a lot more votes than what she will gain from her comments.
To be fair, she was just expressing her opinion as you are expressing yours. Perhaps she's a "rougher diamond" than you are. Working class language for a working class girl. I've no doubt, in fact she said so herself, that she felt she was being moderate. I don't think she'll lose more votes than she'll gain since she's the only person I can think of who is calling out the Cons for the charlatans they really and truly are. I hope like-minded folk will rally round her. But all this is just a difference of opinion and what I have difficulty with is "I am not particularly political at all, they are all in it for themselves and will tell you anything you want to hear in order to win votes." To some extent they are. What use is a politician if he/she doesn't win any votes? But do you want democracy or not? If you do, I would say you have a duty to take an interest and to vote at election time. I hear this far too often and i just don't get it. For me it's like closing your eyes and walking past a mugging when you could have done something about it with no danger to yourself. You really do have the government you deserve.
 
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A reflection on society as a whole at the moment. Unfortunately people have forgotten what is and is not acceptable behaviour. I blame social media for a lot of it because it seems people think they can just say what they want with no repercussions. You are also starting to see more and more of it in football grounds. I am not particularly political at all, they are all in it for themselves and will tell you anything you want to hear in order to win votes but for a politician to use language like that says a lot more about her than who she was referring to. As for the politics, she will lose a lot more votes than what she will gain from her comments.
She will gain more votes as she's being honest as they are scum and worse. As for not acceptable behaviour how about Brexit lies, Covid shambles, cutting benefits, cutting police numbers and under funding the NHS these are unacceptable behaviours.
 
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I think people are slightly missing the point. Reading Rayner's comments, she's trying to provoke her opponents into amplifying a message about Johnson being a "racist, homophobic misogynist", in the same way that eg Remainer complaints amplified the message about £350m on Leave's bus.

Asked on Sunday morning if she would retract the remarks, she said she believed the prime minister was a "racist, homophobic misogynist".
"I think he needs to apologise for comments he has made in the past," Ms Rayner told the BBC, adding: "I will apologise when Boris apologises for saying the comments he has made, I will retract that he is scum."


At the same time there's research supporting the idea that left-wing types do far more of this kind of name-calling than right-wing types (can't find it now, argh). And that certainly feels correct - the concept of "Tory scum" seems widespread in some Labour circles, but you don't see Tories talking about "Labour scum" in the same way.

If nothing else, it's just smart politics. To win power, Labour need votes from people who voted Tory last time. Calling them "Tory scum" is not the way to win people to your side. And you may think you're just talking about individual ministers, but 2019 Tory voters hear it as calling them, the voters, scum.

Labour have no chance of winning the next election with this tory in a red tie at the helm.

In the 76 years since 1945, the only Labour leaders to have won a working majority are Wilson in 1966 and Blair in 1997/2001/2005. Both middle-class Oxford graduates. The only leaders to win with enough of a majority to actually do things, in 76 years!

Whereas Corbyn led Labour to their worst defeat in over 30 years.

The fact remains that to win elections Labour need to win in places like Swindon, Milton Keynes, Bournemouth, Harrow, Colchester and yes, even Carlisle. The left may fantasise about policies that will pile up votes in Bootle or the Rhondda, but that's not what Labour need to do. Unless they are talking to floating voters in places like Bournemouth and MK, Labour is nothing more than a student debating club. Blair and Wilson understood that, Corbyn and Foot didn't.

Starmer is a 6 or a 7, he isn't brilliant - but then neither are the people he's up against, the quality of our politicians is not great at the moment. But he's better placed than many Labour front-bench MPs to talk to the people that Labour need to vote for them and he has to be viewed in that light. Yes it would be nice if he had a bit more of that Andy Burham crowd-pleasing oratory, but Burnham isn't an MP, so isn't going to be Prime Minister. I have a feeling that after so many years of division and tub-thumping, ordinary floating voters are crying out for quiet competence. And potentially that is something that Starmer could offer.
 

thesteve

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To be fair, she was just expressing her opinion as you are expressing yours. Perhaps she's a "rougher diamond" than you are. Working class language for a working class girl. I've no doubt, in fact she said so herself, that she felt she was being moderate. I don't think she'll lose more votes than she'll gain since she's the only person I can think of who is calling out the Cons for the charlatans they really and truly are. I hope like-minded folk will rally round her. But all this is just a difference of opinion and what I have difficulty with is "I am not particularly political at all, they are all in it for themselves and will tell you anything you want to hear in order to win votes." To some extent they are. What use is a politician if he/she doesn't win any votes? But do you want democracy or not? If you do, I would say you have a duty to take an interest and to vote at election time. I hear this far too often and i just don't get it. For me it's like closing your eyes and walking past a mugging when you could have done something about it with no danger to yourself. You really do have the government you deserve.
There is a way to get your point across though. The whole "she is working class" thing is an excuse for behaving like a nugget. The only class she showed was none. Most of us are working class but you can still express your opinion without sounding like you are in the primary school playground. Scum is a strong word to use in my view. Scum is a word I would reserve for murderers, paedophiles and wife beaters, which was really what I was getting at, not the actual gist of what she was trying to say. I do vote by the way, just do not let politics dominate my life.
 

An Ankoù

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There is a way to get your point across though. The whole "she is working class" thing is an excuse for behaving like a nugget. The only class she showed was none. Most of us are working class but you can still express your opinion without sounding like you are in the primary school playground. Scum is a strong word to use in my view. Scum is a word I would reserve for murderers, paedophiles and wife beaters, which was really what I was getting at, not the actual gist of what she was trying to say. I do vote by the way, just do not let politics dominate my life.
Fully appreciate your point and I agree with what you say about murderers, paedos etc. I think the difference is that I would clump the present establishment firmly and squarely in with that lot: wanting to send inflatables of asylum-seekers back in their tracks, reneging on international treaties, treating our elected representatives in Parliament (and the Queen for that matter) with complete contempt, etc, etc. I think we both agree, then, that Angela is spot on.
 

Chippy_Tea

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Asked on Sunday morning if she would retract the remarks, she said she believed the prime minister was a "racist, homophobic misogynist".
"I think he needs to apologise for comments he has made in the past," Ms Rayner told the BBC, adding: "I will apologise when Boris apologises for saying the comments he has made, I will retract that he is scum."


I would vote for any leader over this one at the moment -


 

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I dont think im ready to accept that ideoligical austerity, which has led to tens of thousands of deaths, years of dog whistle racism and xenophobia from the likes of Johnson and Patel, and blatant robbing of the public purse under cover of a pandemic are acceptable ways to conduct yourself as long as you dont call names.....

Boris has turned the parliament into a bigger circus than it ever was. I watched PMQs last week and was cringing so hard I think I broke a toe. Scottish MPs in particular come in for regular verbal abuse from the Tory benches.

As you sow, so shall you reap.
 
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I would vote for any leader over this one at the moment

Emily Thornberry? Preet Gill?

OK Chippy - it's easy to say "I don't like him". But to win, you need to be more positive than that. So which of the following will do the best job of persuading Tory voters in Swindon and Bournemouth to vote Labour this time?

Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras)
Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne)
Rachel Reeves (Leeds West)
Lisa Nandy (Wigan)
Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen)
David Lammy (Tottenham)
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne)
Ed Miliband (Doncaster North)
Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury)
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde)
Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South)
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston)
Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central)
Luke Pollard (Plymouth Sutton and Devonport)
Steve Reed (Croydon North)
Lucy Powell (Manchester Central)
Jim McMahon (Oldham West and Royton)
Preet Gill (Birmingham Edgbaston)
Louise Haigh (Sheffield Heeley)
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South)
Nia Griffith (Llanelli)
Anneliese Dodds (Oxford East)
Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough)
Rosena Allin-Khan (Tooting)
Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood)
Wes Streeting (Ilford North)
 

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Chippy_Tea

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OK Chippy - it's easy to say "I don't like him". But to win, you need to be more positive than that. So which of the following will do the best job of persuading Tory voters in Swindon and Bournemouth to vote Labour this time?

I have never heard of most of those on the list so its impossible for me to say all i know is if they don't get rid of this guy they haven't a prayer of winning.

 

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