Another teenager dead.

Discussion in 'The Snug' started by Chippy_Tea, Feb 16, 2019.

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  1. Feb 16, 2019 #1

    Chippy_Tea

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    Its easy to say -
    We seem to read about another young person losing their life to knife crime almost weekly it has been going on far too long nothing they have done so far has made a bit of difference so when are they going to do something that will make a difference, stop and search is not working or enough of a deterrent probably due to a lack of police on the streets, the punishment for carrying a knife has to be enough to deter them and stop and search has to be increased even if it means more police on the beat, scrap HS2 now and save £56 billion then give the police enough money to police the streets before another family has to bury their teenage son or daughter.




    A 16-year-old boy has died, two days after he was stabbed in the chest near the college where he was a student.

    He was injured on Belgrave Road, outside Joseph Chamberlain Sixth Form College in Highgate, Birmingham, at about 16:00 GMT on Wednesday.

    West Midlands Police said the boy's life support system was switched off on Friday evening and he died in hospital with his family around him.

    A boy, 16, was charged with attempted murder before the student died.

    He is due at Birmingham Crown Court on Monday.

    Read in full - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-47264590
     
  2. Feb 16, 2019 #2

    MrRook

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    It is impossible to keep weapons out of the hands of anyone who really wants one. I doubt that the suspect in this case have any thought to what would happen if he was caught with an illegal weapon.
     
  3. Feb 16, 2019 #3

    Chippy_Tea

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    There needs to be a much bigger fear of the concequences of getting caught in possession of a knife that is the only way people will stop carrying them.
     
  4. Feb 17, 2019 #4

    MrRook

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    You'd think so, but there is a percentage, young males especially, of the population who think they are indestructible and the law doesn't apply to them if it gets in the way of what they want to do.
    The death penalty hasn't eliminated murder.
     
  5. Feb 17, 2019 #5

    Chippy_Tea

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    They feel like this because the deterrent isn't enough to stop them carrying, how many times do you see these young lads asked why they carry a knife and they say its to protect themselves they wouldn't need to protect themselves if it was felt the majority didn't carry them.


    Well it hasn't since 1965. wink...

    .
     
  6. Feb 17, 2019 #6

    Chippy_Tea

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    And another yesterday and not in a big city for a change -



    Boy, 13, stabbed in chest near Blackpool beach


    A 13-year-old boy has been stabbed close to Blackpool Promenade.

    The boy was stabbed in the chest but his injuries are not believed to be life threatening.

    Officers were called to the scene in Rawcliffe Street, opposite the beach at about 17:50 GMT on Saturday.

    A 13-year-old girl and two boys, aged 14 and 15 - all from Blackpool have been arrested. Lancashire Police said it believed "all parties involved are known to each other".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-47271399



    and one from last week in Colchester -

    A teenager has been charged with murder and attempted murder after a double stabbing.

    It follows the death of Carl Hopkins, 49, who was found dead in Colchester on February 11, and the stabbing of another man the previous night.

    The 17-year-old, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was also charged with possession of a knife.

    The boy, from Woolwich, has been remanded to appear at Chelmsford Magistrates' Court on Monday.

    The body of Mr Hopkins was found in Ryegate Road, near the town's Castle Park, at about 08:30 GMT, having suffered a stab wound to the lung.

    At 21:55 GMT the night before, a man had suffered serious injuries in a stabbing in George Street.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-47270490
     
  7. Feb 17, 2019 #7

    Dutto

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    Whoa there!

    I and many other people carry a knife and none of us have any intention of stabbing anyone with it!

    Why carry a knife?
    1. Back when I was a kid, the government of the day introduced free dental checks at school and put the dentists on "piece work" so that the greater number of fillings they did the more they got paid.
    2. I lost all of my teeth when relatively young and have to cut up hard fruit like apples; so I carry a knife.
    What type of knife?
    1. A folding and locking penknife.
    2. A small sheath knife.

    Knives are useful and they are amongst the very first implements invented by mankind. Before the invention of bronze, iron and steel, mankind made cutting implements from flint and other rocks; the latest development being the "folding pocket-knife".

    As a Health and Safety Manager I instigated an exchange programme on all of the offshore rigs and platforms that the company operated. A "safety folding pocketknife" (i.e. one that locked the blade in place) was exchanged for every "non-locking folding pocketknife" that was handed in. No-one used the locking blades to stab anyone but the number of people being treated for cut fingers by the Medic was rapidly reduced to zero!

    At one time every Boy Scout carried a sheath knife in a leather holster that was hung on his belt; the Boy Scout association actually sold a particular model.

    Back in the 1950's, the variety of blades that were brought to my school ranged from WW1 bayonets, WW2 bayonets and German Youth Knives (much prized because they had a swastika inlaid in the handle) and not one child was ever injured as the result of a deliberate attack! (Admittedly, there were accidents; mainly during games of "Split" in which a badly thrown blade may find its way into someone's foot!)

    The answer is definitely NOT the banning of ALL knives! The answer lies in making young people aware that knives are inherently dangerous and that there can be major consequences from using a knife to injure someone.

    BTW there has been a law against carrying an "Offensive Weapon" for many years. The best example I can give is:
    • I am walking home from the motorbike shop carrying a motorbike chain in my hand with the intention of renewing the chain on my motorbike. The chain IS NOT an "Offensive Weapon".
    • Later the same evening, I am walking across the local dancehall carrying the same motorbike chain with the intention of hitting someone with it. The chain IS an "OffensiveWeapon".
     
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  8. Feb 17, 2019 #8

    Chippy_Tea

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    You could have saved yourself a few minutes typing by using google -

    There is a huge difference between carrying a knife as a tool and carrying one with the intent of using it to protect yourself (stab another person) No one is saying everyone should be banned from carrying a knife and the current law also doesn't say it is illegal what is illegal is carrying long bladed and lock knives unless you have a very good reason for doing so and we all know why these people are carrying these types of knife.




    UK Knife laws

    UK knife law allows you to carry non-locking pocket knives with a blade length up to 3 inches (7.62 cm) without any need for a valid reason.

    You are allowed to carry a knife which exceeds these guidelines in public, but please remember: you then do need a good reason to carry it. Gov.uk has the following to say on good reasons to carry a knife:

    “Examples of good reasons to carry a knife in public can include:

    • taking knives you use at work to and from work
    • taking knives to a gallery or museum to be exhibited
    • the knife is going to be used for theatre, film, television, historical re-enactment or religious purposes, eg the kirpan some Sikhs carry
    A court will decide if you’ve got a good reason to carry a knife if you’re charged with carrying it illegally.”

    Abuse is still illegal
    Also remember that using any knife (legal or illegal) in any threatening way, is also illegal. So using your (legal) Swiss Army knife in any threatening way is still illegal.

    Knife free zones
    There may be zones where you are not permitted to carry any knife at all, regardless of size or locking mechanism. As you may understand this often is the case in football stadiums, bars, clubs, city centres and other crowded places.

    Other banned knives
    There are several other types of knives what are illegal to own, period. Other banned knives include the following list:

    • flick knives (also called ‘switchblades’ or ‘automatic knives’) - where the blade is hidden inside the handle and shoots out when a button is pressed Please note: assisted openers where you push a flipper or thumbstud to open the knife are ok for use at home!
    • butterfly knives - where the blade is hidden inside a handle that splits in two around it, like wings; the handles swing around the blade to open or close it
    • disguised knives, eg where the blade is hidden inside a belt buckle or fake mobile phone
    • gravity knives
    • sword-sticks
    • samurai swords (with some exceptions, including antiques and swords made to traditional methods before 1954)
    • hand or foot-claws
    • push daggers
    • hollow kubotan (cylinder-shaped keychain) holding spikes
    • shuriken (also known as ‘death stars’ or ‘throwing stars’)
    • kusari-gama (sickle attached to a rope, cord or wire)
    • kyoketsu-shoge (hook-knife attached to a rope, cord or wire)
    • kusari (weight attached to a rope, cord or wire)
    This list is not complete. Please contact your local police when in doubt.
    Courtesy of Gov.uk
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  9. Feb 17, 2019 #9

    Dutto

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    I pointed out that I carry a SAFETY KNIFE, so called because it has a locking mechanism to prevent the blade from folding over on my hand and cutting me. As far as I am concerned I have a good reason for carrying it because A) I need it to cut up fruit. B) I do not wish to cut myself whilst doing so.

    However, this didn't prevent:
    1. A Security Officer taking my Opinel knife off me when I went to board the Eurostar train on the basis that it was an "illegal locking knife."
    2. The Border Control Officer who inspected our motorhome telling me that he could confiscate the replacement Opinel knife that was resting underneath the dashboard. He suggested that, as we were on our way to France (where they are on sale in virtually every shop), I should just leave it in France because "locking knives are illegal in the UK". I pointed out that in the kitchen area of the motorhome I had a full set of kitchen knives with blades up to ten inches long and a meat cleaver; and that these would be much more effective if I wished someone harm.
     
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  10. Feb 17, 2019 #10

    Chippy_Tea

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    You can call your knife whatever you want but its still a lock knife so is illegal to use and carry in the U.K. you may not agree with the reasoning behind that but that changes nothing.
     
  11. Feb 17, 2019 #11

    aamcle

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    Wrong, all you need is "a good reason" to cary, that can be work, hunting, fishing there are a hole range of legally acceptable reasons to carry a lock knife or a fixed bladed knife.

    It is also very wrong to say to a citizen you can't do or have X because some criminal has abused one like it, although dangerous devices like cars require licencing and training.

    You do realize that your logic would support a ban on beer?

    Aamcle
     
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  12. Feb 17, 2019 #12

    MrRook

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    Maybe it's time to find some place safe to hang out?
    I'm assuming that the death penalty was banned in England in 1965. It wasn't here and while some evil people should be removed from society it just doesn't prevent the crimes that qualify for it.
     
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  13. Feb 17, 2019 #13

    Ghillie

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    The problem is not knives, it's education. Sadly, education is harder to enforce than control of (potential) weapons.

    It's a real shame and such a waste of a good chance at life when these young idiots kill or be killed...

    I carry a knife every day at work, for both jobs, it's a vital tool, but only that. A tool. I have one in my pocket when I'm fishing also, because it serves a purpose. A purpose that isn't negative.
     
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  14. Feb 18, 2019 #14

    Chippy_Tea

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    Wrong?

    This is exactly what I have posted above.

    .
     
  15. Feb 18, 2019 #15

    Chippy_Tea

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    Spot on and like dangerous dogs it's not the knife or dog that is the problem it's the idiot carrying or teaching it to be that way.
     
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  16. Feb 18, 2019 #16

    Derekmr

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    Get the army on the streets, these scum need teaching the hard way, no using race as an excuse ,
    We are too soft, that is the problem.
     
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  17. Feb 18, 2019 #17

    Gunge

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    Meanwhile.... whilst on jury service last year, I noted with dismay and disbelief that kirpans are allowed in court. Is it just me?
     
  18. Feb 18, 2019 #18

    AdeDunn

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    I would suggest that you take a good, long, hard look at the countries where they pretty much DO have the army on the streets, teaching the "scum" the hard way... You won't like what you see, that I can tell you, as you'll find that the are the most violent countries on the planet, with the highest rates of murder and violent crime in the world. But heh, nice theory, but the proof is out there that taking a hard line on crime actually has the total opposite effect to that intended...

    Then take a look at countries that take a much softer line on crime than even us, with prisons that are more like secure blocks of flats, where they treat the prisoners like fellow humans. You'll find that since doing this, and switching to rehabilitation rather than punishment, crime rates are down, as is recidivism. I'm looking at you, Norway! https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12?r=UK
     
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  19. Feb 18, 2019 #19

    Chippy_Tea

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    I am surprised any bladed weapon is allowed in court.
     
  20. Feb 18, 2019 #20

    Dutto

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    I agree, which is why the "Dangerous Dogs Act 1991" is a perfect example of skewed legislation. Statistically, the most dangerous dog in the UK isn't on the list of the four proscribed dogs named under the Act. (i.e. Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino, Fila Brasileiro.)

    A person in the UK is much more likely to be attacked and bitten by a Jack Russel Terrier.
     

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