Are you starting?! To start or not to start?

[RexBanner]

Evening all.
Put a post up on fave acbe regarding Lager Kits and yeast etc.
A gentleman informed me I should make a "yeast starter". I have 2 5 gram packs of dry youngs lager yeast.
Now then, from what I understand it involves putting the dry yeast into warm water with some sugar for 20mins.

Question is, for a kit beer is it worth doing??

 

[Dutto]

Yes.

Here's a great link ...



You don't need a Stir Plate but the lad isn't being "anal" when he sanitises everything. I advise you to do the same.

You can use a Kilner Jar or a Pyrex Jug covered with aluminium foil as long as it's sanitised.

If you start it this evening, put it in a nice warm place, give it a whirl every time you pass it tonight and tomorrow then the yeast will be properly hydrated and ready to go by tomorrow afternoon.

I advise standing whatever you use on a tray or other easily cleanable surface until you need it.

The reason it's a "good thing" is that:

1. It get's the yeast breeding and they are ready to go to work when they are pitched into the wort.
2. The dried yeast is multiplied during the process.
3. When pitching dried yeast into the wort a large percentage of them die. As you are already working with a small amount it is better to go for the Starter.

Enjoy.

 

[Oneflewover]

Hmmmm. My understanding is that you are looking to rehydrate the dried yeast, not make a starter (which I don't think you need to, or even should, do).

I also believe that to rehydrate the yeast you should not use sugar or any other fermentable, just tepid water for 20 mins or so.

I now always rehydrate dried yeast, and definitely think that fermentation starts sooner and is more vigorous as a result.

 

[Brew_DD2]

For dry yeast, rehydrate with plain water. No starter required for dried. For liquid, make a starter with water and extract.

 

[Dutto]

For dry yeast, rehydrate with plain water. No starter required for dried. For liquid, make a starter with water and extract.

Why? I find that making a Yeast Starter with dried yeast gets the brew off to a much quicker start.

This is from the link below:

"Yeast Starter

This is the most advanced method and probably the best. A yeast starter is made a day or two before brew day by adding either liquid yeast or re-hydrated dried yeast to a small quantity of wort (typically half a pint/250mls, and usually made by dissolving some spraymalt in water). The yeast cells multiply rapidly under these conditions and when they are added to the main batch, fermentation takes off very quickly and the yeast remains at its peak of health.

A starter is pretty much mandatory when using packs of liquid yeast, since the number of yeast cells in a typical pack can be insufficient to start a healthy fermentation."

So, you have to make a Yeast Starter with liquid yeast because the packets don't contain sufficient cells to get the wort off to a flying start.

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/fermentation.htm

 

[RexBanner]

Ahhh I think I may have rehydrating at starter as one and the same.
So tjem, rehydration needed but no sugars tl "start it" so which is best, 20mins or over night? if the yeast multiplies over night then surely this will mean more sugar will be chowed on during fermentation? thanks for the help people.

 

[Dutto]

I don't bother with the rehydration step but I do make sure that the yeast and the wort are at the same temperature.

I put the yeast sachet in the Brew Fridge where I intend to put the Starter and set it at 19ºC.

I then dissolve a dessertspoonful of Holland and Barret Malt Extract into 400ml of water as it comes to the boil.

While it's coming to the boil, I sanitise a double layer of aluminium foil and a 1 litre pyrex jug.

When the water/LME mixture starts to boil I pour it into the jug, slide the end of a sanitised temperature probe into the mixture, cover the jug with the foil and let it cool in a sink full of cold water.

When the mixture in the jug approaches the 19ºC mark I lift it out of the sink, remove the probe, open up and shake the yeast into the jug, insert a sanitised "Stirrer" (*), put the foil back on and put it in the fridge on the Stir Plate.

I normally do this the morning of the day before I intend to pitch the yeast, so the Starter has from 26 to 30 hours of fermentation before pitching.

(*) The Stirrer is only required if you are going to use a Stir Plate.

Enjoy. :thumb:

 

[Brew_DD2]

Why?

Cheaper, and less hassle to pitch two packets of dry yeast if it's a high gravity brew that calls for it. I'm sure I read that dried yeasts are packaged with the optimal nutrition and energy reserves that negates the need for anything more than rehydration.

 

[Drunkula]

which is best, 20mins or over night?

20 minutes. Anything over half an hour and those yeast are starting to want food because they've exhausted their own reserves.

One of the reasons people say it's pointless to make starters with dried yeast (it isn't) that doesn't get much mention is that people dry sprinkle it into the starter mixture, killing half of it, then spend the next 12 hours getting it back to the level it would have been at if it had just been hydrated. So if you are going to make a starter hydrate it first before adding it to the wort to buy yourself back that time.

Sometimes they say the cost of dry yeast is cheaper than making a starter - you'll have to judge that yourself - I've got tons of spraymalt and it was very, very cheap so for me it's peanuts.

 

[Cwrw666]

Personally I look at the packet - if it says rehydrate, then I rehydrate. If it says sprinkle on the top of the wort. That's what I do. Of course you could always assume that the people who make the yeast don't know anything about yeast...

 

[Gunge]

Personally I look at the packet - if it says rehydrate, then I rehydrate. If it says sprinkle on the top of the wort. That's what I do. Of course you could always assume that the people who make the yeast don't know anything about yeast...

Like folk who fiddle with cars and motorbikes to make them better, like Mr. Ford or Mr. Honda don't know what they're doing and their thousands of R & D hours and millions of pounds investments aren't as good as the back street bodger's efforts lol. But I'm a creature of habit and always rehydrate the yeast. I can't help myself. It might not need it but it can't hurt.... can it?

 

[dad_of_jon]

I've not seen rehydrate yeast instructions on the packets as far as I recall yet on their website they DO say for best results rehydrate etc...
now the yeast with kits often comes in a plain packet and kit instructions are known for their make beer in X days claim. Rehydrating yeast gives you more success.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...V4_MJ_CS_Yeast_Bk_WEB.pdf?8134981805448849678

check page 4.

https://fermentis.com/fermentation-solutions/you-create-beer/

for example...
https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/SafAle-US-05.pdf

http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/products/brewing-yeast/

for example
http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/lallemand-tds-nottingham-021317-2.pdf

The only manufacturer I've used who don't have rehydration instructions is Bulldog / Hambilton Bard. When I spoke to a tech guy there he give rehydration instructions. He said whilst they should have some instructions on the website, they've had issues with customers [NUMPTIES] rehydrating in just boiled water and then wondering why it's not fermenting.

I would also say that underpitching can be beneficial to some styles as stressing the yeast creates desired flavours in the beer. However the amount of yeast I've had in kits has been 5-7g rather than 10/11g you get when you buy yeast separately so i'd not want to lose half my yeast straight off by sprinkling in. It's your call of course but it's always good to have a spare pack of yeast, say from wilko kept in the fridge in case your original yeast fails :thumb:

best wishes with your brew.

 

[Sadfield]

If pitching dried yeast into wort causes half of the viable cells to die, why would you want to make a starter? It is the same thing, only using a smaller volume. It's killing yeast to grow them back again.

Dry yeast is manufactured with the sterols required for cell multiplication, pitching into a starter uses these reserves. When that starter is pitched into the fv, some of the yeast will start fermenting wort, but there will still be a need for further cell growth. As the sterol reserves have been used, the yeast then has to go through a process of synthesising sterols in order to grow further. The result is a fast starting fermentation that slows as the yeast plays catch up with the growth stage.

All in all, making a starter from dried yeast is counterproductive.


Most dry yeast is produced in small packs for homebrewers and larger commercial packs. Commercial packs will carry the instructions to rehydrate, as this is best practice and the manufacturers assume that commercial brewers have the skill set to do this correctly, and without contamination. Homebrew packs carry the instructions to sprinkle directly, as this is the most foolproof way of pitching yeast.

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[foxbat]

The Mr. Malty website assumes 20B cells/gram of dry yeast. If that's anywhere near true then 2x 5g packs would be a big underpitch for 5 gallons of lager. I'd buy two more 5g packs or make a starter.

 

[Sadfield]

This is a very good article.

https://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2010/06/the-importance-of-being-hydrated/

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[Dmet]

From the 2 brews I have done so far, the first one I re-hydrated 30 minutes before I was due to pitch in water around 20°C. The OG of the beer was 1.050 and it took nearly 24 hours to get going, but when it did it was vigorous. Second brew I re-hydrated and then a little added sugar about 3 hours before I pitch in an OG of 1.040 and I had fermentation start within an hour which was still going 7 days later.

I know that the OGs were different and could have had a bearing but I know which one I will try again over the other.

 

[Drunkula]

If pitching dried yeast into wort causes half of the viable cells to die, why would you want to make a starter? It is the same thing, only using a smaller volume. It's killing yeast to grow them back again.

And that's why you need to rehydrate before putting it into the starter.

water around 20°C

35 to 40c is optimal. https://bkyeast.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/more-on-yeast-rehydration/

 

[Brew_DD2]

And that's why you need to rehydrate before putting it into the starter.



35 to 40c is optimal. https://bkyeast.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/more-on-yeast-rehydration/

Interesting article. I tend to rehydrate at between 25c and 30c. Going to go for 35c on my next batch.