Belgian Beer - Recipe check and advice

[-Bezza-]

Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on the below.

I'm looking to brew something strong, just for the sake of it, but want it to be drinkable. I was thinking along the lines of something Belgian and aiming for a deep and complex flavour with good maltiness. So this is what I've come up with - pale as the base, aromatic to get maltiness, biscuit to bring in a slightly different flavour profile. Hops are based on a few recipes I have found so I couldn't tell you what each addition is trying to achieve, so open-minded there.

I'm wondering whether dark candi might be better than amber for flavour (will it affect flavour that much??), but beersmith has it coming out nigh on black whereas I would prefer something darker brown.

At the moment, my brewing schedule can be a bit erratic and so I've been limited to dried yeast so that I can order it in advance and keep it. Is that going to be a no-no in a beer like this?


Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
6.00 kg​	Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (5.9 EBC)​	Grain​	1​	75.0 %​	3.91 L​
1.00 kg​	Aromatic Malt (51.2 EBC)​	Grain​	2​	12.5 %​	0.65 L​
0.50 kg​	Biscuit Malt (45.3 EBC)​	Grain​	3​	6.3 %​	0.33 L​

Mash Steps

Name​	Description​	Step Temperature​	Step Time​
Protein Rest​	Add 23.06 L of water at 53.4 C​	50.0 C​	30 min​
Saccharification​	Heat to 68.9 C over 15 min​	68.9 C​	420 min (yep)​
Mash Out​	Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min​	75.6 C​	10 min​

• Fly sparge with 17.01 L water at 75.6 C
• Add water to achieve boil volume of 29.06 L
• Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.058 SG

Boil Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
25.00 g​	Perle [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min​	Hop​	4​	20.0 IBUs​	-​
25.00 g​	Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 20.0 min​	Hop​	5​	8.4 IBUs​	-​
10.00 g​	Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min​	Hop​	6​	2.5 IBUs​	-​
0.50 kg​	Candi Sugar, Amber [Boil] [Boil for 20 min](147.8 EBC)​	Sugar​	7​	6.3 %​	0.32 L​

 

[Sadfield]

Looks good. Personally I'd aim or around 10-15% sugar, but that's just my preference for dry, drinkability or 'digestible' as they call it in Belgium.

Dry yeast is good enough for De Struisse and De Ranke and they make some of the best beers from Belgium, in my opinion. I like Safale BE-256, and T-58 is popular.

 

[buddsy]

Im looking at a similar brew

I have all the ingredients to try this Dark Dubbel from David Heath. Includes pitching twin yeasts.



buddsy

 

[-Bezza-]

Looks good. Personally I'd aim or around 10-15% sugar, but that's just my preference for dry, drinkability or 'digestible' as they call it in Belgium.

Dry yeast is good enough for De Struisse and De Ranke and they make some of the best beers from Belgium, in my opinion. I like Safale BE-256, and T-58 is popular.

Thanks! I keep changing between 0.5kg and 1.0kg sugar in the recipe.

Beersmith is suggesting BE-256 and T-58 both top out at 10% (1.024 FG) whereas MJ's M47 Belgian Abbey will go to 11% (1.017 FG) on this brew, and with 1kg sugar.

 

[-Bezza-]

Im looking at a similar brew

I have all the ingredients to try this Dark Dubbel from David Heath. Includes pitching twin yeasts.



buddsy

Cool - I'll give that a watch later.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Thanks! I keep changing between 0.5kg and 1.0kg sugar in the recipe.

Beersmith is suggesting BE-256 and T-58 both top out at 10% (1.024 FG) whereas MJ's M47 Belgian Abbey will go to 11% (1.017 FG) on this brew, and with 1kg sugar.

In my Belgian Tripel I use 1Kg light candi and 500g dark candi. The beer is a nice golden colour.

I’ve made it using M47 and WLP500. I find that with M47 it comes out at 10%, is dry, and it has less of the bubblegum/ spice flavours. WLP500 comes out at 9% and it leads to a softer, sweeter, and more aromatic beer.

Hope this is useful to you.

 

[Sadfield]

Great colour and lacing there @Hazelwood Brewery.

 

[-Bezza-]

In my Belgian Tripel I use 1Kg light candi and 500g dark candi. The beer is a nice golden colour.

View attachment 42916
I’ve made it using M47 and WLP500. I find that with M47 it comes out at 10%, is dry, and it has less of the bubblegum/ spice flavours. WLP500 comes out at 9% and it leads to a softer, sweeter, and more aromatic beer.

Hope this is useful to you.

Thanks - interesting to hear that on the colour. I wonder if Beersmith is making an error on colour with candi sugar - I read somewhere that someone else had a similar issue where BS was waaaay out on final colour. That beer you have looks lovely!

And loving the Grimbergen glass too - bought quite a bit of that stuff back from France on the last trip over!

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Thanks - interesting to hear that on the colour. I wonder if Beersmith is making an error on colour with candi sugar - I read somewhere that someone else had a similar issue where BS was waaaay out on final colour. That beer you have looks lovely!

And loving the Grimbergen glass too - bought quite a bit of that stuff back from France on the last trip over!

I guess the words “dark candi” are a bit subjective - how dark is “dark”? I buy mine from THBC but have no idea really if theirs is lighter or darker than anyone else’s.

The glass is nice. I’ve discovered only quite recently that the glass has a marked effect on the experience of drinking beer.

 

[-Bezza-]

Without any candi sugar, that recipe is 24.1EBC.

Amber Candi Sugar in BS is 147.8EBC. Adding 1KG takes the colour to 43.4EBC
Dark Candi Sugar in BS is 541.8EBC. Adding 1KG takes the colour to 82.1EBC.

Malt Miller's Dark Candi is 450. Changing to that value in BS still comes out at 74EBC.

I've not used sugar before - does it really add that much colour?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

It occurred to me I could take a picture and you can compare this with whatever you’re making/buying.

 

[-Bezza-]

I don't have the ingredients yet as still planning what to buy. I might just take a punt on the dark.

I'm also looking at M41 yeast now as that is more alcohol tolerant and apparently has some plummy flavours to it, which sounds nice.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Without any candi sugar, that recipe is 24.1EBC.

Amber Candi Sugar in BS is 147.8EBC. Adding 1KG takes the colour to 43.4EBC
Dark Candi Sugar in BS is 541.8EBC. Adding 1KG takes the colour to 82.1EBC.

Malt Miller's Dark Candi is 450. Changing to that value in BS still comes out at 74EBC.

I've not used sugar before - does it really add that much colour?

I don’t think as much as is being suggested - what’s your final volume?

The grain for my Tripel is Pilsner malt, same as for my Pilsner beer. Picture of the Pilsner below shows the colour without the candi sugar as a comparison.

 

[-Bezza-]

I don’t think as much as is being suggested - what’s your final volume?

The grain for my Tripel is Pilsner malt, same as for my Pilsner beer. Picture of the Pilsner below shows the colour without the candi sugar as a comparison.

View attachment 42918

That's for a 19L batch. I'm just going to assume it's out and if BS is right and it comes out dark, well then I've just got a dark beer.

I'm less impressed by a Peroni glass.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

That's for a 19L batch. I'm just going to assume it's out and if BS is right and it comes out dark, well then I've just got a dark beer.

I'm less impressed by a Peroni glass.

The Peroni glass is nucleated, heavy, and feels good in the hand.

I’ve just done some calculations and for a 19 litre batch, by my calculations:

1Kg at 541EBC adds 80 EBC
1Kg at 450 EBC adds 70 EBC

 

[-Bezza-]

The Peroni glass is nucleated, heavy, and feels good in the hand.

I’ve just done some calculations and for a 19 litre batch, by my calculations:

1Kg at 541EBC adds 80 EBC
1Kg at 450 EBC adds 70 EBC

So perhaps Beersmith is right!

Is there any great flavour difference between the different types of candi?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

So perhaps Beersmith is right!

Is there any great flavour difference between the different types of candi?

Looks like it, yes.

You can mix the lighter and darker candi sugar if colour is important.

Light candi really just adds ABV. Dark candi adds subtle flavours of caramel, toffee, and dark fruit.

 

[-Bezza-]

Looks like it, yes.

You can mix the lighter and darker candi sugar if colour is important.

Light candi really just adds ABV. Dark candi adds subtle flavours of caramel, toffee, and dark fruit.

Dark it is then!

Cheers.

 

[Eoink]

I made a lovely quad and a dubbel last year. Used 10% dark Candi sugar in both and 1.5% Special B in the quad, .5% in the dubbel, use it with caution. Both had loads of those beautiful toasted caramel and dried fruit flavours. A blend of Special B and dark Candi is great for adding complexity.

Grain bill for the quad was:
Pale malt 6kg
Munich 500g
Special B 125g
Carapils. 250g
Carafa1. 150g
Oats. 200g
Dark Candi. 1kg

 

[-Bezza-]

I made a lovely quad and a dubbel last year. Used 10% dark Candi sugar in both and 1.5% Special B in the quad, .5% in the dubbel, use it with caution. Both had loads of those beautiful toasted caramel and dried fruit flavours. A blend of Special B and dark Candi is great for adding complexity.

Grain bill for the quad was:
Pale malt 6kg
Munich 500g
Special B 125g
Carapils. 250g
Carafa1. 150g
Oats. 200g
Dark Candi. 1kg

Welcome to the board!

I was wondering about sticking some Melanoidin in there (as I need a bit for a Vienna Lager and will have some spare). Seemed like that would add some extra depth. Would drop the aromatic down to compensate.

Interested to see that you have oats in there. I was contemplating adding a similar amount to give it a bit more body. How did that work out for you?