Biere de Garde

[Kold Brygg]

The GH BdG have a few recommendations, but suggestd a saison yeast. This ain't what I'm looking for this time and I'm not sure if this is according to the BJCP. "Smooth, well-lagered character, even if made with ale yeast."
https://www.bjcp.org/style/2015/24/24C/biere-de-garde/
I've made this recipe inspired by different sources.

The grist

The hop schedule

Mashing at 65° for 60 minutes
Fermenting with Lallemand Köln pitching at 15-16°.

Aiming for a malty lagerish character.

Any comments?

 

[An Ankoù]

I think you're right not to use a saison yeast. It's not a saison! I'd be inclined to use something like Safale S-33. I like your recipe even if I'd prefer to use fewer malts. Your choice of hops is spot on. You could even use Barbe Rouge throughout.
Which is your favourite bière de garde? I only really enjoy the blondes and I think La Choulette is my prefered pint.

 

[m_kc]

No comments but I'll keep an eye on this post. Always fancied making this style.

 

[Oneflewover]

I made a biere de Garde a while back. Made it nice and malty with a dig dollop of Cara rye along with pilsner, pale and wheat base malts. I used WY 3711 French Saison, which I think is what GH suggests? I fermented at the lower end of the temp range and lagered for a good long time. My recollection is that it was very good without too much yeast character

 

[YeastFace]

In the absence of the White Labs French Ale strain (WLP073 - only available a few months of the year), a kölsch strain is the most-appropriate.

I prefer the ambrée versions, which yours looks like. What's the estimated SG? A bit of sugar may help to stop it from being too cloying.

Are you planning to lager?

Interested where you got your aramis and barbe rouge from? TMM used to sell Alsatian hops but haven't for a few years.

I intend on brewing one in the spring to lay down for next Christmas and also do a bière de Mars for more-immediate drinking.

 

[Kold Brygg]

I think you're right not to use a saison yeast. It's not a saison! I'd be inclined to use something like Safale S-33. I like your recipe even if I'd prefer to use fewer malts. Your choice of hops is spot on. You could even use Barbe Rouge throughout.
Which is your favourite bière de garde? I only really enjoy the blondes and I think La Choulette is my prefered pint.

There ain't many BdG available here in Norway. We have Kinn Solsnu which is decent, but not what have triggered me to brew this style. I've seen recipes suggesting S-33 for a Solsnu-clone. But I got a fresh and washed Köln slurry so I don't bother buying S-33 now. My impression is that the more blonde and pale have a more yeasty flavour. But memory might trick me.

It's probably Jenlain ambree which I've had years ago made me wanting to brew something similar. Having bought a couple of French hops made the final push. Makes sense to try these in a french style, even if I know most commercials uses German Hops.

From the description I'm a bit reluctant to use too much Barbe Rouge, I haven't tried it yet, but it's supposedly quite fruity. And it's recommended to pair with a more noble-ish hop. Surely I could use it bittering, but that seems a bit wasted. The Opal was a bit disappointing to me using it as bittering makes sense. Have considered Magnum for bittering also.

I most likely use the rest of Barbe Rouge in a English IPA, bitter, ESB or Irish red.

As for the grist, I usually keep it more simple, and have considered getting rid of Vienna and Biscuit to increase Munich and Caramunich. But is afraid it's ending up a bit on the sweet side. Wheat is for head retention.

A simplified grist:

In the absence of the White Labs French Ale strain (WLP073 - only available a few months of the year), a kölsch strain is the most-appropriate.

I prefer the ambrée versions, which yours looks like. What's the estimated SG? A bit of sugar may help to stop it from being too cloying.

Are you planning to lager?

Interested where you got your aramis and barbe rouge from? TMM used to sell Alsatian hops but haven't for a few years.

I intend on brewing one in the spring to lay down for next Christmas and also do a bière de Mars for more-immediate drinking.

I prefer the ambree as well. Paler I prefer Belgian Blonde/ Saison or cleaner like pilsner/ kölsch

Lallemand Köln have quite high attenuation, estimated attenuation from SG 1.061 to FG is 1.012 which low enough. I'm a bottler and don't drink that much, so I'm natural lagering due to my drinking pattern . I'm sure I'll try i before but hope it will peak in Mars, and since this is in the lower end of OG for a BdG and might be a tad more hoppy, I'll call it a Biere de Mars.

I've found Barbe Rouge here. I think they ship to UK.
https://www.thehomebrewery.co.uk/barbe-rouge-hops-100g
They also have Mistral
https://www.thehomebrewery.co.uk/mistral-hops-100g
Btw to find hops using this term
"Hopname Pellets site:.no"

For UK:
Aramis pellets site:.co.uk

 

[nickjdavis]

My favourite BdG yeast is Wyeast 3725 Biere de Garde but given that is a seasonal release then generally I use Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale yeast if 3725 is not available. The OP is right not to use a Saison yeast....although Saison's and BdG's are often talked about as being related styles, in my opinion they are more like cousins rather than brothers and you are looking for a totally different ester and flavour profile.

I like the hop choice of Aramis and Barbe Rouge.....Strisselspalt is also a good traditional hop to use.

 

[MickDundee]

My favourite BdG yeast is Wyeast 3725 Biere de Garde but given that is a seasonal release then generally I use Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale yeast if 3725 is not available. The OP is right not to use a Saison yeast....although Saison's and BdG's are often talked about as being related styles, in my opinion they are more like cousins rather than brothers and you are looking for a totally different ester and flavour profile.

I like the hop choice of Aramis and Barbe Rouge.....Strisselspalt is also a good traditional hop to use.

I assume the new Lallemand non-diastaticus Farmhouse yeast would make a decent approximation for 3726 if the 2 liquid yeasts aren’t available?

This thread has been quite useful - I inherited some ingredients a couple of months back, and in amongst the stuff I wouldn’t usually use is some buckwheat so was thinking of trying it in a French style beer (Googling its use in beer only comes up with French and Indian brewing, and the guy I got the ingredients from was French) and BdG was the first that came to mind because 1) I don’t know many French beers, and 2) I’ve never made one before.

 

[nickjdavis]

I assume the new Lallemand non-diastaticus Farmhouse yeast would make a decent approximation for 3726 if the 2 liquid yeasts aren’t available?

This thread has been quite useful - I inherited some ingredients a couple of months back, and in amongst the stuff I wouldn’t usually use is some buckwheat so was thinking of trying it in a French style beer (Googling its use in beer only comes up with French and Indian brewing, and the guy I got the ingredients from was French) and BdG was the first that came to mind because 1) I don’t know many French beers, and 2) I’ve never made one before.

I dont know about India but Buckwheat is often used in beers in the Brittany region of France....the Bier de Ble Noir style often uses buckwheat....I've been trying to get hold of some for a while now....thought about malting my own and then roasting it but I want about 2kg and that's an awful lot of work in our kitchen oven!!!

If I may....I love a Biere de Garde and below is a link to a post I created for my local homebrew club website giving an overview of the style and my thoughts on brewing it...there may be some useful information in there...

Biere de Garde – Style Overview – Anglian Craft Brewers

 

[An Ankoù]

I assume the new Lallemand non-diastaticus Farmhouse yeast would make a decent approximation for 3726 if the 2 liquid yeasts aren’t available?

This thread has been quite useful - I inherited some ingredients a couple of months back, and in amongst the stuff I wouldn’t usually use is some buckwheat so was thinking of trying it in a French style beer (Googling its use in beer only comes up with French and Indian brewing, and the guy I got the ingredients from was French) and BdG was the first that came to mind because 1) I don’t know many French beers, and 2) I’ve never made one before.

It has indeed been useful, I didn't know about this non-diastaticus farmhouse yeast. It deserves a try..
As for buckwheat, blé noir or sarasin, it's typical of Brittany, while BdG derives from Nord- Pas de Calais. I've had buckwheat beers and don't like them very much. i can't imagine it would be nice in a BdG. A stout might be better. It's not a cereal, by the way, and has nothing to do with wheat. Go carefully before making a big batch.

Edit:
Just ordered the farmhouse. Exactly what I was looking for, I think. We'll soon see.

 

[Kold Brygg]

My favourite BdG yeast is Wyeast 3725 Biere de Garde but given that is a seasonal release then generally I use Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale yeast if 3725 is not available. The OP is right not to use a Saison yeast....although Saison's and BdG's are often talked about as being related styles, in my opinion they are more like cousins rather than brothers and you are looking for a totally different ester and flavour profile.

I like the hop choice of Aramis and Barbe Rouge.....Strisselspalt is also a good traditional hop to use.

I haven't moved into the wet yeast area, currently, reusing slurries was big step :hat:.

Some use lager yeast, I suppose the romantic OCD part of me have lead me towards a neutral dry yeast, and since I have a Köln slurry it made sense to plan BdG which I've long have wanted to do. If I where to make a paler version I would have considered T-58 fermented rather cold, either with some sugar to dry it out or a combination with Notty or US-05.

If I may....I love a Biere de Garde and below is a link to a post I created for my local homebrew club website giving an overview of the style and my thoughts on brewing it...there may be some useful information in there...

Biere de Garde – Style Overview – Anglian Craft Brewers

That's a very informative article, thanks for sharing

 

[MrRook]

S-33 is the old Edme yeast and not Belgian.

 

[MickDundee]

S-33 is the old Edme yeast and not Belgian.

Good job Biere de Garde isn’t Belgian either then

 

[chthon]

I just consulted "Farmhouse Ales", and the recommended yeasts all have an attenuation between 70% and 80%, so no saison yeast, indeed.

 

[An Ankoù]

S-33 is the old Edme yeast and not Belgian.

It's "compatible" with the old Edme yeast. Where did Edme get it from in the first place, do you know?
Duvel's yeast originated in Scotland making the Moorgat brew a bolnde wee heavy!

 

[MrRook]

Good job Biere de Garde isn’t Belgian either then

The point is, if you use S-33 you know what to expect.

 

[MrRook]

It's "compatible" with the old Edme yeast. Where did Edme get it from in the first place, do you know?

Haven't got a clue.