black IPA malt recipe ideas please?

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BeerisGOD

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Hello All

Please cam anyone help me make an order for some grains
It seems theres way too many ideas on this style which seems to end up leaning towards a stout/porter
Im considering atm pale malt, cafara special III and crystal.
Would i be missing out by shunning any other grains?
 

strange-steve

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I had the pleasure of tasting @-Bezza-'s Black IPA and it was fantastic, it was a Stone Self-righteous clone and had only pale malt, carafa special III, and crystal 60.
 

An Ankoù

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No you wouldn't. A black IPA needs to be have the backbone to support the hops, but without the roast of a stout or porter. I put a good dollop of torrified wheat in mine and a mixture of carafa special 1 and 3. Go for the darker end of the crystal spectrum and use a clean, fairly high attenuating yeast- you don't want loads of esters in there. US-05 is a good choice.
This is one of my favourite styles. It's absolutely lush, but nothing like a stout or a porter.
 

Clint

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Being relatively new to AG.. I brewed the GH version over a year ago...it's good but ....like said you need it to be IPA..but black.
 

Nicks90

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Would it be better to cold soak the carafa3 or patent instead of putting it in the mash?
 

An Ankoù

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The dark malts do and should contribute to the flavour, which should be rich, but not roast. This blends with the hops typically citra and amarillo to give a lush pungency on top of a smooth café au lait which is more than just the sum of its parts. I would say that while it is a bit like an AIPA but darker, the mouthfeel is quite different. Somebody said its more like an ovethopped schwarzbier than a porter, but I'm not all that familiar with schwarzbier.
 
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dan125

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+1 for cold steeping
I've done this with black malt in my last two BIPAs and it defo helps to keep the roast flavours to a minimum, but you can still taste it.
Last time I used 900g for a jet black 30L batch
acheers.
 

foxy

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Agree with Mr Rook, Midnight wheat get the colour with no burnt, roasted astringent flavours,
darker crystal your limited to the amount used.
 

An Ankoù

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+1 for cold steeping
I've done this with black malt in my last two BIPAs and it defo helps to keep the roast flavours to a minimum, but you can still taste it.
Last time I used 900g for a jet black 30L batch
acheers.
The thing about dark malts is that they provide a biter astringency, almost an acrid flavour, which is appropriate in a well balanced stout or porter, but not in an IPA. I understand this part of the flavour comes from husk of the grain when it's roasted. Carafa Special malts have the husk removed before roasting and so provide a much smoother "darkness". Cold steeping or even putting the roast grains on the surface of the mash just before sparging might be even smoother, but I've never tried either of these. But I think were looking for something more in a black IPA than just and ordinary IPA with black ink in it.

Ah, here we are. I've found the style guidelines: It looks a pretty wide style!
 
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dan125

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The think about dark malts is that they provide a biter astringency, almost an acrid flavour, which is appropriate in a well balanced stout or porter, but not in an IPA. I understand this part of the flavour comes from husk of the grain when it's roasted. Carafa Special malts have the husk removed before roasting and so provide a much smoother "darkness". Cold steeping or even putting the roast grains on the surface of the mash just before sparging might be even smoother, but I've never tried either of these. But I think were looking for something more in a black IPA than just and ordinary IPA with black ink in it.
I was sceptical about the cold steeping to start with but tried it after being disappointed with still getting that astringent/acrid thing when using carafa special in the mash when I used enough to make a properly black BIPA.
When it's steeped the black malt liquor has a huge coffee like aroma which does have a flavour impact on the beer but is very smooth and much more to style in a BIPA I think.

The other advantage of cold steeping is that you don't need to worry about the impact of the dark malts on the mash pH
 

An Ankoù

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When it's steeped the black malt liquor has a huge coffee like aroma which does have a flavour impact on the beer but is very smooth and much more to style in a BIPA I think.
It's time I gave it a try then. Your description is exactly what i imagine and indeed it's what mine tastes like, but steeping might make it even more so. Do you have to go heavy on the Carafa to make up for the fact it's not mashed?
 

dan125

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It's time I gave it a try then. Your description is exactly what i imagine and indeed it's what mine tastes like, but steeping might make it even more so. Do you have to go heavy on the Carafa to make up for the fact it's not mashed?
Definitely worth giving it a trying once. athumb..
It does impart a bit less colour than mashing.
1st time trying it I used 400g carafa sp3 and
300g black in a 28L batch but it wasn't quite as black as I'd have liked so I increased slightly to 900g black malt only in 30L for a better colour.

For steeping I use Gordon Strong's recomended grain/water ratio of 500g/2L (he says 1lb to 2 quarts)
 

BeerisGOD

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Going by this thread and tge posts would it be wrong to swap the cafara special III with black malt to avoid any roastiness?
So just pale malt black and Crystal?
 

Honk

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Going by this thread and tge posts would it be wrong to swap the cafara special III with black malt to avoid any roastiness?
So just pale malt black and Crystal?
My understanding is that the dehusking of the carafa special malts provides less roastiness flavours than normal black malt.
 

BeerisGOD

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My understanding is that the dehusking of the carafa special malts provides less roastiness flavours than normal black malt.
Right. I think my minds made up finally.
Cheers fellas for all the helpful replies
 

Gerryjo

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Being relatively new to AG.. I brewed the GH version over a year ago...it's good but ....like said you need it to be IPA..but black.
I brewed that recently and the roasted grains are way out never mind the proportion as it doesn't have the colour or ABV according to brewers friend.
 
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