Bland Beer

[Davy6Mac]

Have done 3 AG brews using clone kits bought from 3 different online suppliers since I started my journey down the road of AG brewing. They all seemed to be a bit lacking in flavour 1st one was a session bitter and the other two are pale ales, followed the recipe to the instructions 100%(ocd). Using a BrewDevil 30l system to brew, maybe i don't leave them long enough to condition but thought two weeks would be OK, was thinking it might be a water issue, only using some old campden tablets that were given to me. Any ideas would be most grateful, because I have definitely got the bug for homebrewing, keep looking at recipes of beers to make.

 

[crowcrow]

2 weeks might be too short, but while I've found beers improve with ages, I don't find that flavours get more exciting. If you were in a keg I'd suggest some extra hops in the keg, but not sure what you can if it is bottled?

How is your SG turning out and therefore how is your efficiency? Are you getting all the flavour from the malt?

 

[nixhaz]

Have you done a water analysis on your supply? I'd suggest starting there and seeing what it comes up with. If your water is out, the beer will be out.

 

[Charles Stanley-Grey]

Post up the recipes, lets have a look!

 

[strange-steve]

Have you done a water analysis on your supply? I'd suggest starting there and seeing what it comes up with. If your water is out, the beer will be out.

I was thinking the same thing, very soft water can cause beers to be a little flat tasting, and on the other hand high alkalinity can also dull flavours.

 

[Davy6Mac]

Thanks for the info much appreciated, haven't done a water analysis but will do this weekend. Think our water supply is soft but the analysis will be the confirmation. Might look at the David Heath videos to get the basics right

 

[Sadfield]

Could be a water issue. Having water with low mineral content is akin to cooking without salt.

The other thing to consider is expectation, what were these beers clones of and are they the same beers you normally drink? They could just be bland/conservative recipes. Or it could be an issue of yeast esters or hop utilisation between two different brewers.

 

[Hanglow]

Making stronger beers can help, as can adding more hops. Some of the recipes for bitters can seem a bit conservative to me, it's often the case that commercial brewers get better utilisation and also better ingredients - at least in the case of hops for example - than we do as homebrewers.

I also have soft water and adding some calcium chloride and calcium sulfate can help a lot with some recipes. It would also help your mash get closer to the ideal pH range, which is probably a touch high at the moment for pale beers if you aren't treating your water at all.

 

[Davy6Mac]

Thanks for the info, does anybody have a list of the basic water treatment chemicals that I might need, my water testing kit will be delivered on Wednesday and I'm trying to put and order along with grains etc, for brewing next w/end.

 

[Leon103]

Could be any of the above but without recipes it is hard to say what the issue is. Could be just your expectations, or the recipe itself.

 

[foxy]

Have done 3 AG brews using clone kits bought from 3 different online suppliers since I started my journey down the road of AG brewing. They all seemed to be a bit lacking in flavour 1st one was a session bitter and the other two are pale ales, followed the recipe to the instructions 100%(ocd). Using a BrewDevil 30l system to brew, maybe i don't leave them long enough to condition but thought two weeks would be OK, was thinking it might be a water issue, only using some old campden tablets that were given to me. Any ideas would be most grateful, because I have definitely got the bug for homebrewing, keep looking at recipes of beers to make.

Before going down the path of water treatment and without knowing what temperature you mashed at, I would say you could have mashed at a low temperature producing a thin beer with no body. How old it the Brew Devil and have you calibrated the temperature? I have done the same mistake brewing a mild at a lower temperature and ending up with a bland watery beer.

 

[MmmBeer]

If you're in Solihull, then your water will come from the Elan Valley in Wales. This is soft and low in minerals, ideal for lighter beers. For a quick water quality check, type your post code into Severn Trent's water quality webpage.

https://www.stwater.co.uk/my-supply/water-quality/check-my-water-quality/

 

[Cwrw666]

If you're in Solihull, then your water will come from the Elan Valley in Wales. This is soft and low in minerals, ideal for lighter beers.

Yeah, I was going to say this too. I have very very soft water and my beers turn out very acceptable indeed without any water treatment (except for stouts which are better with hard water). I also mash at lowish temperatures and have no body issues (at least as far as beer is concerned!) - 148F, whatever that is in centigrade, is what I normally aim for.
You might just have low efficiency. But that will improve with more brews under your belt.

 

[strange-steve]

Water may or may not be the root cause but I'm sure that a little basic treatment will help, especially if your water is very soft. As others have pointed out, minerals in the water have a big effect on perception of flavour but the misconception that soft water is good for brewing just won't seem to go away, no doubt at least in part due to the influence of US brewers.

Soft water, ie that which is low in calcium and other ions, isn't ideal for most styles, especially British styles. When I started increasing the amount of calcium chloride in particular, I found my beers had much more depth of flavour (I also have very soft water). So get yourself some calcium chloride and gypsum, possibly some CRS for alkalinity adjustments if needed, and do a little reading on water adjustments.

 

[Davy6Mac]

Thanks for the help strange-Steve, I think that's the problem, didn't pay much attention to water adjustment etc, having only done 3 AGbrews since returning to HomeBrew after a 25 year absence, only ever did kits all those years ago. Have read some information this afternoon starting to get a better understanding.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

Water treatment is a really complicated subject I consider to be a 'dark art' and am not looking forward to getting to grips with. Try the easy and cheap things first

You said:

maybe i don't leave them long enough to condition but thought two weeks would be OK

Respected homebrewer and author Graham Wheeler says in his book Brew Your Own Real Ale: "beer should be matured for at least two weeks. As a rule of t h u m b* give a maturation period of one week for every ten degrees of gravity above 1000. A 1040 beer would be optimum at four weeks"

How are you packaging your beer? Beer conditions quicker in bottles than if kegged etc. Years ago I bought a beer engine and dispensed with it from a polypin and the beer was never quite as good as the left over couple of litres I bottled at the same time. I think this was mostly down to bulk conditioning taking longer than bottle conditioning.

*Sorry, I had to put spaces between each letter of "t h u m b" as the forum turns the word into a ridiculous emoji

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

Thanks for the info much appreciated, haven't done a water analysis but will do this weekend. Think our water supply is soft but the analysis will be the confirmation. Might look at the David Heath videos to get the basics right

Online, your water company will be fairly transparent about: 1- what mixture of minerals, such as copper etc is in your water and 2- what hardness/ softness rating your water is. Just have a little look there. If you’re water is hard this will naturally be great for IPA’s , porters, stouts, bitters etc. If it is soft then adding some calcium sulphate (Gypsum) to your water should sort the problem out.
The other issue could be your Mash time or temperature. You want to make sure that you mash long enough to convert the starches in the grains into fermentables. The temperature of the mash is super important too. This will determine how much body and sweetness is in the final beer. I often found that my first AG beers came out a bit lack lustre. I then did some research into mash temperature and this really turned my AG brewing from ok to holy sh** that is tasty. Here are my findings in short-
Mashing at temps of 60-65c will result in a more complete fermentation (higher attenuation) giving you a cleaner, thinner beer with less body. Mashing at higher temps such as 68-70c really brings out the un fermentable sugars, giving you a fuller body and sweeter beer. To mash at 67c will give you a medium body. 67c is a pretty good temp to mash at if you want a great rounded beer. I have simplified my findings here, there are a lot of technical names for sugars converted like alpha and beta amylase, but I will let you get into all that if you want to.
In short, make sure that you mash at the right temp for your beer style and make sure that you fully convert all the starches into sugars. (I use a simple iodine test to see if I have fully converted) I hope these ramblings make sen e and are helpful?
Happy brewing

 

[foxy]

That is where I would put my money, I have soft water, and have always treated the water yet can still make an uninteresting beer if the mash temp is to low. This can happen on the Brew Devil and all the other namesakes. I check my calibration every couple of brews, it takes no time when preparing for the next brew, a couple of degrees out to the lower side will result in a bland beer.

 

[Davy6Mac]

Thanks for the info, will check the calibration on my brewdevil. Maybe the mash temp was not right, will probably use the 67c mash temp in future for my brews as a starting point, and possibly a more detailed water cal.My latest AG brew my 3rd was a pale ale clone kit from a supplier(the homebrew outlet), the recipe stated a mash temp of 75c thought it might be a bit high etc, not sure what effect this would have.

 

[Clint]

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