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No disrespect Pope , but quoting channel 4 news ?
There well known for there left/ remainer leanings and will twist and misquote as they deem necessary . Still let’s not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
I was a Brexiteer who ended up voting remain.
I had a feeling that our politicians were not up to the job of successfully taking us out.
I was so 50% 50% about it that I actually made up my mind whilst walking to the polling station.
That is very unusual for me because I have a very black and white outlook on most things.
 
Hi!
If the referendum was a declaration of the UK government's policy to leave the UK, let's leave. If we cut off our nose to spite our face, then so be it.
However, if the referendum was a testing of the water so that politicians can debate the issue further, then we've been royally shafted.
 
I thought the idea of a referendum was to give the people the choice and take the decision out of the politicians hands.
 
I consider Murdoch's Fox Network's increased bid for Sky is very much related to "Brexit".

Remember, The Sunday Times, The Times, The Sunday Sun and The Sun ALL supported Boris with his "Leave" campaign and between them were responsible for much of the lying that went into the pre-referendum anti-EU rhetoric that resulted in the "Leave" vote.

When it comes to Sky:
  • Murdoch's Fox Network company already owned nearly 40% of Sky but Murdoch required full control and made an offer of £11.7 billion to take over the company.
  • After much resistance from the UK population (including myself) and despite dozens of modified offers and promises from Murdoch's minions, the UK government considered that this would not be "in the public interest".
  • This gave time for another bid to be made by a non-Murdoch based company called Comcast.
  • Today's news is that Murdoch has now upped the Fox Network bid to £24.5 BILLION.
So, in view of the fact that the Fox Network has more than DOUBLED its original offer, I think everyone should ask themselves "Already owning a huge slice of the UK media, why is a foreign billionaire so desperate to own even more of the UK media?"

The answer is simple: "It is in HIS interests to do so."

As there is NO chance that the interests of this particular foriegn billionaire will coincide with MY interests (and being member of the British Public), I will yet again write to my MP to request that the latest offer is again refused on the basis that it is "not in the public interest".

BTW, in the interests of fairness, could you please let me know if Fox Network acquiring Sky is in YOUR interests? :thumb:
 
GhostShip said:
As I recall, there were only two options on the referendum ballot paper. Stay in the EU or leave the EU. Leave the EU but remain in certain bits of it was not on the paper and therefore should not be an option now.
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I feel like you could make the exact same argument the other way (i.e. it only said 'Leave the EU' on the ballot paper and said nothing about ditching regulations, closing the borders or leaving the single market) and that for me is the issue.

I don't think people that voted to leave didn't understand the potential implications (any more than remain voters didn't anyway...), but I do think that different people voted for different things by ticking the same box. All we know is that people voted to leave the EU (which we will...), nothing at all about what they wanted in terms of our future relationship, immigration policy or regulatory alignment.

It seems incredibly disingenuous to me that some politicians are claiming that the referendum result represents cast iron support for their full range of policies and that questioning any one of them is a betrayal of the British people...

Personally I would like to see a second referendum over the final deal (never going to happen I know), if the British people want to take those terms we will, if we don't we won't...sounds very democratic and respectful of the will of the British people to me.
 
When we joined the EU there wasn’t a vote to join until after Heath had already signed us up, the stay in vote won. We have now had over 40 years in the EU and it has morphed into a political union, with far reaching implications for all citizens. The origin was about trade ( or so people were told) it clearly is not just about trade. So after 40 odd years people have voted leave, if after 40 years people are not convinced what would be the point of another vote. Most European countries now have quite a healthy anti-eu portion of there population so I don’t think it’s just “us”.
Let’s see how things are in 40 years then have another vote
 
aj65 said:
I thought the idea of a referendum was to give the people the choice and take the decision out of the politicians hands.
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Hi!
We have a representative democracy; the people don't make decisions, Parliament does. The result of any referendum gives our representatives in Parliament an indication of our opinion. If the majority of an MP's constituents vote to leave the EU, then he/she should (in principle) vote accordingly in a Parliamentary division following a debate on the issue - I am leaving aside the duty of an MP to vote his/her conscience, of course.
Unfortunately, the "constituencies" used for the referendum do not match those used in a General Election, so there's only the first major fudge, as far as Parliament is concerned.
Let's not forget that the referendum was a sop by David Cameron to the Euroskeptic Tory MPs to get them back onside - it was a political expediency rather than a genuine attempt to gauge the mood of the nation.
 
aj65 said:
So after 40 odd years people have voted leave, if after 40 years people are not convinced what would be the point of another vote
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Hi!
I wonder how many people made their choice at the polls for the same reason that my mother did? She voted to leave because she wanted less foreigners in the UK.
I agree - a second referendum is unwarranted. The issue is in the hands of our MPs, as it rightly should be.
 
It is my understanding that a democracy goes with the majority, and to me you saying the people don’t decide seems very undemocratic. Cameron called the referendum to fight of the UKIP challenge which more and more “people “ where supporting mainly on the basis that they wanted a referendum. So as you say we may live in a reprentative democracy that the people don’t decide on decisions but certainly on this occasion they did.
I didn’t vote leave because of the foreigners my son is half German living in cologne, and my daughter is half Icelandic living in Keflavik.
I have 2 half Cambodian nieces and 2 more German nieces. I’m not saying you where accusing me of being an xenophobe just wanted to clear that up.
 
I have never considered the "Leave" voters as moronic, stupid or any other of the derogatory descriptions that I have read and heard bandied about. At the very worst I consider them to be have been misled and/or misguided by the rhetoric (and sometimes downright lies) of people who are attempting to further their own interests.

Personally I voted "Remain".

My "Remain" vote was based on the simple facts that after the UK joined the EU we have had:
  1. Peace with our European neighbours. (The last 70+ years is probably the longest period in recorded history!)
  2. Not suffered food rationing or other shortages since shortly after joining.
  3. A voice in the governance of Europe; which in turn spoke for its 750 million inhabitants on the world stage.
  4. Improved Consumer, Health & Safety, Environmental and other Standards in accordance with European legislation.
  5. Become:
    • part of a trading bloc that included many of the world's foremost economies.
    • a prosperous country after joining these economies.
    • a stable economy that benefitted from its involvement and trade with its European neighbours.
I therefore saw no reason to vote for a return to my previous experience of life in the UK, despite the UK government failing to make a positive impact within Europe since 1973. In my opinion, this was more a reflection of the UK government's own weakness than the intransigence of "Johnny Foreigner".

In synopsis I have no confidence that having left the EU, the UK government will improve the life of ordinary UK citizens ...

... but I sincerely hope that I live long enough to be proved wrong! :thumb:
 
Chippy_Tea said:
I am getting a little tired of people calling those who chose to leave cclueless or words to that effect.
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Yet on this thread, the name calling has been one sided. "Remoaners", "Snowflakes" and "Liberal wet lettuces" all used by leavers.
 
aj65 said:
No disrespect Pope , but quoting channel 4 news ?
There well known for there left/ remainer leanings and will twist and misquote as they deem necessary . Still let’s not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
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What on earth are you going on about? The source is completely irrelevant to the story. The story is also on the London Evening Standard's website: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...-inaccurate-claims-about-the-eu-a3884736.html The Evening Standard is edited by former Tory Chancellor George Osborne.

"There well known for there left/ remainer leanings and will twist and misquote as they deem necessary". Firstly, it's "they're", not "there". Secondly, how can what I've posted be regarding the Johnson story be a misquote or twist on the facts?

"Still let’s not let the facts get in the way of a good story" The quotes I put on my post about Johnson are the facts. One quote is from Johnson's resignation letter, one quote is from a government official in 2014 and one quote is from Johnson himself in 2014. It's indisputable.
 
Some of us don’t believe “everything “ we read regardless of the source. The Evening Standard run by a former chancellor with no axe to grind !!! I’m sure it was Osborne who said “Emergency budget” . Having had dealings with my local paper and them completely misquoting me I know how they work , any story can be spun to fit a narrative (Alistair Campel)
Still let’s not let the facts get in the way of a good story
 
Ps thanks for correcting my grammar English never was my strong point lol
 
Pope said:
Yet on this thread, the name calling has been one sided. "Remoaners", "Snowflakes" and "Liberal wet lettuces" all used by leavers.
Click to expand...

It hasn't been one sided at all leavers have been called gullible and worse and you have been called patronising for your views on why they chose to vote leave!
.
 
Surprised this thread is still open as its teetering on a very thin line.
Lets face it whats been done has been done regardless of who,what,why,when or where and we have to look to the future and think of food prices especially grain for our bread,cereals and BEER!!!!!!

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk
 
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