Brewing/Recipe calculations

[Brewnaldo]

I suspect I will post a lot about this as I get through my latest book, Designing Great Beers. In buying this book I intend to get my process sort of nailed down regarding numbers. I am pretty slapdash with throwing ingredients in and whilst I can get decent beer from simple recipes that way, I want to know my efficiencies* etc and Inalso want to be able to construct recipes myself from a place of knowledge not guesswork.

I guess brewing software takes a lot of the onus of calculations away from the brewer, but regardless, my first question is this. When getting my mash efficiency, do I use the full volume of wort collected pre boil, or just the mash? I do BIAB, typically a 25 litre mash, and 10 litre sparge and aim for pre boil volume of 29 to 30 litres

 

[foxy]

I suspect I will post a lot about this as I get through my latest book, Designing Great Beers. In buying this book I intend to get my process sort of nailed down regarding numbers. I am pretty slapdash with throwing ingredients in and whilst I can get decent beer from simple recipes that way, I want to know my efficiencies* etc and Inalso want to be able to construct recipes myself from a place of knowledge not guesswork.

I guess brewing software takes a lot of the onus of calculations away from the brewer, but regardless, my first question is this. When getting my mash efficiency, do I use the full volume of wort collected pre boil, or just the mash? I do BIAB, typically a 25 litre mash, and 10 litre sparge and aim for pre boil volume of 29 to 30 litres

There are brewing calculations on line which can be printed off, a long time since I looked at Palmers book but I think he has quite a few in there.
Here is Braukaisers efficiency page, but take note of the first paragraph. Apples oranges and interpretations.
https://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Understanding_Efficiency

 

[Brewnaldo]

There are brewing calculations on line which can be printed off, a long time since I looked at Palmers book but I think he has quite a few in there.
Here is Braukaisers efficiency page, but take note of the first paragraph. Apples oranges and interpretations.
https://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Understanding_Efficiency

I guess I can use any water volume Inwant at various stages of my process and it will give me an idea but I think for efficiency of getting sugars out the grain, I should be comparing the wort into the boil to the potential of the grain, so effectively a 30 litre volume

 

[Zephyr259]

Pre-boil volume and gravity will give you a mash/lauter efficiency, fermenter volume and gravity gives you brewhouse efficiency with the difference being the wort lost to kettle dead volume. The maths never really works out quite right for me but it's mostly down to the fact that wort expands when it's hot so my pre and post boil volumes are actually about 1L higher than they would be if the wort was cold like it will be in the FV.

Designing Great Beers is a good book, I enjoyed reading it when I started out but keep in mind that it's fairly dated now and seems to base a lot of it's recipe data on competition beers. Still, following it is going to get you some tasty beers.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Pre-boil volume and gravity will give you a mash/lauter efficiency, fermenter volume and gravity gives you brewhouse efficiency with the difference being the wort lost to kettle dead volume. The maths never really works out quite right for me but it's mostly down to the fact that wort expands when it's hot so my pre and post boil volumes are actually about 1L higher than they would be if the wort was cold like it will be in the FV.

Designing Great Beers is a good book, I enjoyed reading it when I started out but keep in mind that it's fairly dated now and seems to base a lot of it's recipe data on competition beers. Still, following it is going to get you some tasty beers.

It's the thought process behind creating a recipe and understanding the role of different grains that I want to improve.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I use the volume in my FV when working out efficiency because in the end that’s what matters.

I mash with 20l and then sparge with 10l if the beer will go into a pressure barrel or with 8l if it will go in a corny keg. I end up with 23l or 21l respectively in the FV.

When you create a recipe it’s a good idea to have something in mind to guide your decisions. Is it going to be a particular style of beer (eg a German Doppelbock or Czech Pilsner). If so then the BJCP will help quite a lot, have a look here...

https://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/catdex.php
Also, ask. When people publish a recipe and they use a grain you don’t know ask them what it brings to the recipe - why that grain, why that amount, etc.

There are lots of articles on the internet too that will walk you through pretty much everything that’s going on behind the curtain of brewing software. I like to do all this stuff manually myself because for me it’s part of the pleasure of brewing.

 

[Brewnaldo]

I use the volume in my FV when working out efficiency because in the end that’s what matters.

I mash with 20l and then sparge with 10l if the beer will go into a pressure barrel or with 8l if it will go in a corny keg. I end up with 23l or 21l respectively in the FV.

When you create a recipe it’s a good idea to have something in mind to guide your decisions. Is it going to be a particular style of beer (eg a German Doppelbock or Czech Pilsner). If so then the BJCP will help quite a lot, have a look here...

https://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/catdex.php
Also, ask. When people publish a recipe and they use a grain you don’t know ask them what it brings to the recipe - why that grain, why that amount, etc.

There are lots of articles on the internet too that will walk you through pretty much everything that’s going on behind the curtain of brewing software. I like to do all this stuff manually myself because for me it’s part of the pleasure of brewing.

Yes that's where I want to get to. The book basically has style outlines in it. And describes how you start with an idea of OG then figure out the grain bill from there based on extraction and %s required for flavour etc. Basically looking to get the buildong blocks sorted. It's all very well following a GH recipe or making a pilsner based on my own hop schedule but I need a greater understanding of why

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Yes that's where I want to get to.

If you haven’t already done this, you can start by measuring some things to understand a bit more about your own process. For example what are the volumes and gravity after the mash, after the sparge, after the boil, in your FV. These tell you something about the losses and gains through your process.

Are your findings consistent?

 

[foxy]

Yes that's where I want to get to. The book basically has style outlines in it. And describes how you start with an idea of OG then figure out the grain bill from there based on extraction and %s required for flavour etc. Basically looking to get the buildong blocks sorted. It's all very well following a GH recipe or making a pilsner based on my own hop schedule but I need a greater understanding of why

I got a sample of the book from kindle, I didn't pull the trigger on it, because as suggested by Zephyr259 you are being limited by BJCP. You want to brew a beer according to what you like, not conforming to a style. Unless you are entering a comp. Commercial or craft breweries don't go by BJCP they brew what they hope the public will like.
https://my.mbaa.com/ItemDetail?iProductCode=25513&WebsiteKey=5a386918-3ebb-4d43-8758-d1cfb1184fb3

 

[Brewnaldo]

I got a sample of the book from kindle, I didn't pull the trigger on it, because as suggested by Zephyr259 you are being limited by BJCP. You want to brew a beer according to what you like, not conforming to a style. Unless you are entering a comp. Commercial or craft breweries don't go by BJCP they brew what they hope the public will like.
https://my.mbaa.com/ItemDetail?iProductCode=25513&WebsiteKey=5a386918-3ebb-4d43-8758-d1cfb1184fb3

I like the idea of understanding the building blocks more though. I have no intention of only brewing by style guides, it's just that I am currently going between following other folks recipes or lobbing a guessed amount of pilsner malt in and making a lager.

I just want to learn a bit about fundamentals. As you already seen from the OP, I dont even know the fundamentals of my kit, I dont know efficiency or boil off rates or dead space. I do all of it by feel, and whilst I have only had a couple of failures, I want to have a greater understanding of the basics.

 

[trueblue]

The only brewing calculator I use is the old one devised by Graham Wheeler. One of the first devised, very basic but is always spot on.

 

[Brewnaldo]

70% efficiency today although cheated and used an app to calculate.

Another question.... When calculating IBU, do you use the expected final wort volume ie end of the boil, or the volume into which the hops are going, so for my bittering hops into a 29 litre boil, is it that I use, or do I use the 25 I expect to be left

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

70% efficiency today although cheated and used an app to calculate.

Another question.... When calculating IBU, do you use the expected final wort volume ie end of the boil, or the volume into which the hops are going, so for my bittering hops into a 29 litre boil, is it that I use, or do I use the 25 I expect to be left

It’s the volume at the end of the boil.