Brewing Saison Advice

Discussion in 'General Beer Brewing Discussion' started by shepp, Mar 31, 2017.

  1. Mar 31, 2017 #1

    shepp

    shepp

    shepp

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    North Surrey
    I plan to brew a saison tomorrow in my Grainfather.
    A couple of questions I hope can be answered.
    Should I go for a pale ale or lager water profile?
    I will be using Belle Saison dry yeast, what fermentation temperatures would you go for?
    I have read many different opinions on this one.
    Cheers. :thumb:
     
  2. Mar 31, 2017 #2

    Sadfield

    Sadfield

    Sadfield

    Regular. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,116
    Likes Received:
    533
    Location:
    Macclesfield
    Ahhh...Saison is great, and as long as you keep the yeast as the star of the show you can take the style in different directions. Either water profile will work, my Saison profile is a halfway house between the two.

    Fermentation temperature? This is one of those questions that'll get varied answers. Basically, cool = Clean, warm = complex, some people pitch warm, others pitch cool and ramp the temperature up. My usual method is to pitch at around 20C and let the yeast do its own thing unregulated, let it get as warm as it likes. Saison yeast will ferment very low, although sometimes at its own pace. My advice is leave fermenting for 2-3 weeks, it'll get there eventually.

    Another good rule of thumb is to use equal bittering and flavour hop additions and then 3 times the amount in aroma additions, to the desired level of IBUs. Resulting in low bitterness, clean malt and complex aroma.

    Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
     
    shepp likes this.
  3. Mar 31, 2017 #3

    shepp

    shepp

    shepp

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    North Surrey
    Thanks Sadfield, great advice!
     
  4. Mar 31, 2017 #4

    strange-steve

    strange-steve

    strange-steve

    Quantum Brewer Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,244
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Location:
    Galle Crater, Mars
    I usually go for a balanced sulphate:chloride ratio for a saison and aim for around 100ppm calcium.
    I haven't used that particular yeast, but I'm with sadfield, pitch fairly low then ramp up the temperature.
     
    shepp likes this.
  5. Mar 31, 2017 #5

    chthon

    chthon

    chthon

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    85
    Keep it warm and let it take its time, I have seen reports of this yeast sometimes stalling or going very slow.
     
    shepp likes this.
  6. Mar 31, 2017 #6

    serum

    serum

    serum

    Regular.

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    139
    Location:
    London
    I'd go with a sulphate heavy profile as hops should stick out more than malt in this style.

    For the yeast start low 20s and ramp up to finish. I've not heard of Belle Saison stalling. A few of the liquid saison yeasts are notorious for that but not this one as far as I know. It should go pretty low without any trouble but it can also take a lot of heat without giving fusels if you want to try that.
     
    shepp likes this.
  7. Mar 31, 2017 #7

    Leon103

    Leon103

    Leon103

    Regular. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    3,677
    Likes Received:
    898
    I have used that yeast. I started at 20c for about 4 days and then raised it up to 28c until 14 days
     
    shepp likes this.
  8. May 13, 2017 #8

    shepp

    shepp

    shepp

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    North Surrey
    First try of this beer and it's a winner, I ended up fermenting it for one week at 20c then one week at 24c, it was fully fermented done by then to 1.002. I then transferred it into the secondary onto 2 kg of frozen rhubarb and gave it another week at 22c.
    Bottled and conditioned it 10 days ago and opened the first bottle this evening.
    It has a lot of rhubarb flavour but not at all sour, good carbonation, nicely balanced.
    My best beer so far and something you can't buy.
     
  9. May 13, 2017 #9

    Covrich

    Covrich

    Covrich

    Sith Acolyte Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    4,482
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    I must try another Saison might wait for the warmer months July would be a good time to leave one..I can control cool but not heat.

    I have heard this advice a lto though pitch cool and let it just raise up.. I think I did mine 24 but going higher isn't a problem as long as you don;t mind them funky
     
    shepp likes this.
  10. May 13, 2017 #10

    shepp

    shepp

    shepp

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    North Surrey
    My first saison and I will definitely brew another.
    I held back on the heat this time because I thought I would ease myself into the style, will probably go higher next time. I will leave it simple without the fruit edition too.
     
  11. May 14, 2017 #11

    serum

    serum

    serum

    Regular.

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    139
    Location:
    London
    Sounds good. There are actually a few rhubarb beers out there and they're a mixed bag. Sounds like yours hit the spot.

    A basic saison is a cracking beer. Probably the most refreshing thing for a summer day. I'll make a few more when the weather picks up.

    Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
     
    shepp likes this.
  12. May 14, 2017 #12

    Bill

    Bill

    Bill

    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NULL
    Got a 40pint Yorkshire bitter from the range, it says to use dextrose sugar 1kg can I use ordinary sugar?
     
  13. May 15, 2017 #13

    mr_bridger

    mr_bridger

    mr_bridger

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    NULL
    What was your malt bill? And what figures did you go for on the water in the end?

    I'm into Saisons at the mo, got a N.W.S. kit on the go at mo, will be dry hopping this week. I pitched at about 28 and bunged it in the airing cupboard, so should be pretty funky.


    Got a Saison yeast pinched out of a BBNo 01|04 on the stirplate, looking for ideas what to make with it.

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
  14. May 15, 2017 #14

    shepp

    shepp

    shepp

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    North Surrey
    Summer Saison

    Anonymous

    Method: All Grain
    Style: Saison
    Boil Time: 90 min
    Batch Size: 12 liters (fermentor volume)
    Boil Size: 21.5 liters
    Boil Gravity: 1.029 (recipe based estimate)
    Efficiency: 75% (brew house)
    Source: Homebrew Academy



    Original Gravity: 1.051

    Final Gravity: 1.009

    ABV (standard): 5.52%

    IBU (tinseth): 39.74

    SRM (morey): 3.48








    Fermentables
    Amount Fermentable
    Belgian - Pilsner 1.86 kg Pilsner 70.5%

    Belgian - Wheat0.52 kg Wheat 19.7%

    German - Vienna0.26 kg Vienna 9.8%

    2.64 kg Total

    Hops
    Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU 16 g

    Styrian Goldings16 g Styrian Goldings Hops Pellet 5.5 Boil60 min

    Saaz 8 g Saaz Hops Pellet 3.5 Boil 20 min

    Styrian Goldings8 g Styrian Goldings Hops Pellet 5.5 Boil 20 min

    Styrian Goldings8 g Styrian Goldings HopsPellet5.5Whirlpool at °C0 min

    Saaz8 g Saaz Hops Leaf/Whole 3.5 Whirlpool at °C0 min



    Mash Guidelines
    Amount Description Type Temp Time ----64 C--Starting Mash Thickness: 2.9 L/kg
    Yeast
    Danstar - Belle Saison Yeast
    Attenuation (avg):
    80% Flocculation:
    Low Optimum Temp:
    17.2 - 23.9 °C Starter:
    No Fermentation Temp:
    19 °C Pitch Rate:
    -

    My FG ended up at 1.002 before rhubarb edition, which is dry but the it does not lack body.

    As for water I just used the 'old forum water calculator' and added CRS as shown but the other editions were basically half of what was recommended for an IPA.
    I have hard water.
     
  15. May 15, 2017 #15

    mr_bridger

    mr_bridger

    mr_bridger

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    NULL
    Cheers dude. I like the idea of the rhubarb, will definitely consider it for an upcoming brew. Need to get me some Pilsner malt, I do seem to have an excess of Maris otter at the moment tho lol.

    Talking of pilsner malt, anyone know the difference between Pilsner Malt and Bohemian Pilsner Malt?

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
  16. May 16, 2017 #16

    Zephyr259

    Zephyr259

    Zephyr259

    Regular.

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Aberdeenshire
    On the topic of pilsner malt, would Irish lager malt suffice? Lager and pilsner males are basically the same right?
     
  17. May 18, 2017 #17

    Slid

    Slid

    Slid

    Forum Friend Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,388
    Likes Received:
    1,037
    Location:
    Bolton
    Yes, for our purposes, they will be interchangeable.
     
    Zephyr259 likes this.
  18. May 19, 2017 #18

    serum

    serum

    serum

    Regular.

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    139
    Location:
    London
    Bbno use wyeast French saison so any recipe with that in.

    Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
     
  19. May 19, 2017 #19

    serum

    serum

    serum

    Regular.

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    139
    Location:
    London
    Bbno use wyeast French saison so any recipe with that in.

    Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
     
  20. May 19, 2017 #20

    mr_bridger

    mr_bridger

    mr_bridger

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    NULL
    That's good to know. I'm about to do my 3rd grow up on the stirplate, there's already loads of yeast in there. Be able to brew a Bach and save some for next time. :-)

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     

Share This Page