Brewing with Motueka

[Burtsbeets]

Hi Guys!

So, I have been mooching around on this forum for a while as I have been getting to grips with AG brewing. I have done just over 10 AG batches now and I am getting to a point where I want to start experimenting with it a little with hopping.

So, I decided to make a celebration beer for a friend who recently bought a house. He used to live in New Zealand, so I thought, let's get a NZ hop and get brewing!

I originally brewed a fruity style IPA very similar to the recipe below. However, I have dropped the dry hop with Citra and replaced it with Motueka (trying to let the Motueka sing a little more, as Citra is quite dominant). Also, the aroma hopping at flameout was Amarillo, Citra and Centennial. The Centennial has now been dropped for Motueka.

Long post and finally the question! What do you guys think? Will the Motueka blend well, will it be overshadowed and just be an expensive hop at the back?

Also, has anyone used Motueka and have recipes to share?

Cheers in advance guys!

Batch Size	11.000 L	Boil Size	15.500 L
Boil Time	1.000 hr	Efficiency	75%
OG	1.056 sg	FG	1.014 sg
ABV	5.60%	IBU	45.8 (Tinseth)
Color	5.0 srm (Morey)

Name	Type	Amount				Color
Weyermann - Pale Ale Malt	Grain	1.800 kg			​	3.4 srm
White Wheat Malt	Grain	770 g			​	2.0 srm
Hops
Name	Alpha	Amount	Use	Time	Form	IBU
Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus	13.00%​	12 g	Boil	60.000 min	Pellet	34.2​
Citra	13.70%​	5 g	Boil	30.000 min	Pellet	11.6​
Amarillo	8.90%​	6 g	Aroma	0.000 min	Pellet	0​
Citra	13.70%​	6 g	Aroma	0.000 min	Pellet	0​
Motueka	7.00%​	6 g	Aroma	0.000 min	Pellet	0​
Amarillo	8.90%​	14 g	Dry Hop	2 days before bottling	Pellet	0​
Motueka	7.00%​	14 g	Dry Hop	2 days before bottling	Pellet	0​
Yeast
Safale S-05	Ale	Starter	6 g	Primary

 

[An Ankoù]

Not a hop on my radar, but I see I've got a 50g sample in my fridge that needs trying out. It seems to be more suited to lager with a "noble hop" character. I think you might lose it in mix you suggest above. But, to honest, I've never used it.

 

[Oneflewover]

Yeah, I think @An Ankoù has probably nailed it. I used it once (actually as a sub for Citra) as I wanted the lime notes in a saison. If I recall correctly the camra book suggested it for a saison recipe. Anyway, it was lost; the saison yeast overwhelmed it. I'd probably use in a lager, but wouldn't rush to buy it again.

 

[Burtsbeets]

That's a shame. I was hoping it may have had some of the characteristics of other well-known NZ hops, I did read it had tropical notes and citrus but had no idea it was so subtle.

I was just curious as I have a tropical stout recipe, that I will be brewing very soon, and it is in there along with Citra and Target as a bittering hop.

I think in the heart of experimentation I may split off the batch and compare the Citra and Motueka side by side. Cheers for the input so far though guys!

I will have to post back how it brews. I am currently brewing a good old British Golden Ale (Closer to that of Shropshire the better) and having a go at an American Light Lager, so my brew bins are full.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

This was my Chinook and Motueka Pale from last year, turned out really nice, needed a couple of months conditioning.

11l batch, og 1044 though it should have been 1050 something.

2kg lager
200g vienna
350g otter
50g biscuit

Mashed in at 66 for an hour.

12g Chinook @ 60
5g.chinook @5
10g motueka @5
5g chinook @flameout
10g motueka@flameout

Yeast was CML 4 and I also dry hopped with 20g of each.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

I've also just done a Riwaka (sp) and Motueka pale, only 3 weeks in bottle, had a sneaky one last week, nice but too early to tell how good it'll be really. I think the hops are very similar, grapefruity, citrus.

 

[Burtsbeets]

This was my Chinook and Motueka Pale from last year, turned out really nice, needed a couple of months conditioning.

11l batch, og 1044 though it should have been 1050 something.

2kg lager
200g vienna
350g otter
50g biscuit

Mashed in at 66 for an hour.

12g Chinook @ 60
5g.chinook @5
10g motueka @5
5g chinook @flameout
10g motueka@flameout

Yeast was CML 4 and I also dry hopped with 20g of each.

Haha, I am yet to have a beer that lasts a couple of months, but I will keep that in mind. I think the IPA I made before barely made it past 4 weeks, it was just so good with the freshness of the hops!

Cheers for sharing the recipe. What flavours were mellowing out over that couple of month wait?

 

[just_gary]

I have a pale hopped with equal part Motueka and Ekuanot conditioning. At the moment, it tastes a bit like a hoppy posh cloudy lemonade. Motueaka are quite lemony.

Kiwi Pale (American Pale Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.047 (°P): 11.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol (ABV): 4.56 %
Colour (SRM): 6.7 (EBC): 13.2
Bitterness (IBU): 33.4 (Average)

95.01% Maris Otter Malt
4.99% Caramalt

1.2 g/L Styrian Aurora (4.4% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1 g/L Ekuanot (13.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1 g/L Moteuka (6.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
4 g/L Ekuanot (13.5% Alpha) @ 5 Days (Dry Hop)
4 g/L Moteuka (6.8% Alpha) @ 5 Days (Dry Hop)

0.1 g/L Whirlfloc Tablet @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 65°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with Crossmyloof Pia

I've only been doing this a year, so I'm sure others that know what they're doing will be able to see ways to improve the recipe. I thought I'd share as I'm please with how it has come out so far and thought it may be a good starting point

 

[Burtsbeets]

I have a pale hopped with equal part Motueka and Ekuanot conditioning. At the moment, it tastes a bit like a hoppy posh cloudy lemonade. Motueaka are quite lemony.

Kiwi Pale (American Pale Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.047 (°P): 11.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol (ABV): 4.56 %
Colour (SRM): 6.7 (EBC): 13.2
Bitterness (IBU): 33.4 (Average)

95.01% Maris Otter Malt
4.99% Caramalt

1.2 g/L Styrian Aurora (4.4% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1 g/L Ekuanot (13.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1 g/L Moteuka (6.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
4 g/L Ekuanot (13.5% Alpha) @ 5 Days (Dry Hop)
4 g/L Moteuka (6.8% Alpha) @ 5 Days (Dry Hop)

0.1 g/L Whirlfloc Tablet @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 65°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with Crossmyloof Pia

I've only been doing this a year, so I'm sure others that know what they're doing will be able to see ways to improve the recipe. I thought I'd share as I'm please with how it has come out so far and thought it may be a good starting point

Cheers for the recipe as well! I don't think I have dry hopped any beers to 4 g/L yet, do you do this as you will be waiting a long time before you drink it (so preserving the hop aroma) or just preference?

I actually just caved in and opened the hops, as I will be brewing fairly soon, and I get what you mean about lemony citrus. It's so fresh when compared to Citra which has a lot more of those heavy and slightly catty citrus tones.

I am looking forward to brewing with this hop now!

 

[just_gary]

Cheers for the recipe as well! I don't think I have dry hopped any beers to 4 g/L yet, do you do this as you will be waiting a long time before you drink it (so preserving the hop aroma) or just preference?

To be honest, I'm a bit scatter-gun in my approach, probably as I'm still learning. I had brewed one (Mosaic and Citra) with much less dry hopping previously, and it barely tasted of anything, so I think this was knee-jerk reaction to that. I had read somewhere 8g/l is about the limit for dry-hopping before you get into the land of diminishing returns, so I used that as a basis for the recipe.

There isn't the burn you might expect from the dry hopping, but I reckon a couple of weeks at cellaring temp will help smooth out what there is.

I have to say, I was very impressed with the CML Pia yeast too. It was my first time trying it. It fermented out fast, and is very clean tasting, which works well with the fruity hops. It's not dropped clear yet, but then I always seem to get a lot of haze after dry-hopping. It doesn't really bother me.

I had previously done an experiment pairing Motueka with Sabro (as that was what was in my fridge!) and that was not one I'll be trying again. I reckon it'll work well with the Citra though.

 

[Burtsbeets]

To be honest, I'm a bit scatter-gun in my approach, probably as I'm still learning. I had brewed one (Mosaic and Citra) with much less dry hopping previously, and it barely tasted of anything, so I think this was knee-jerk reaction to that. I had read somewhere 8g/l is about the limit for dry-hopping before you get into the land of diminishing returns, so I used that as a basis for the recipe.

There isn't the burn you might expect from the dry hopping, but I reckon a couple of weeks at cellaring temp will help smooth out what there is.

Have not experienced any hop burn yet, but I will keep an eye on it.

I have to say, I was very impressed with the CML Pia yeast too. It was my first time trying it. It fermented out fast, and is very clean tasting, which works well with the fruity hops. It's not dropped clear yet, but then I always seem to get a lot of haze after dry-hopping. It doesn't really bother me.

I hadn't heard of CML yeasts until I came onto this forum, I guess the places I shop haven't stocked them. I will definitely have a look into them though, cheers!

 

[just_gary]

I hadn't heard of CML yeasts until I came onto this forum, I guess the places I shop haven't stocked them. I will definitely have a look into them though, cheers!

CML = Crossmyloof, so you'll only find them through their shop

Crossmyloof Online Store

 

[Burtsbeets]

Nice, cheers for that. Well priced yeast with free shipping.

 

[Cestrian]

I've used Motueka quite a lot and I'd say less is more with this hop. It is very lemony and can be overpowering. Does really well on it's own in a single hop lager, or as a late hop in a simple Summer ale, but looking back through my old recipes, does go quite well with Cascade or other NZ hops like Kohatu & Wakatu. Tried it with Citra and it was harsh. Doesn't go well at all with piney hops like Chinook.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Cheers for sharing the recipe. What flavours were mellowing out over that couple of month wait?

Not sure if I could put my finger on it, perhaps when the hops faded slightly it just came together better. I've said loads of times that it never fails to surprise me how much beer changes over time.

 

[jamow]

I used it as the predominant late hop in a fairly simple malt billed pale ale.
It turned out to be a very refreshing easy drinker with lime peel/lemon/lime flavours. No tropical fruit taste.

 

[An Ankoù]

These description remind me of a Hall and Woodhouse (Badger) beer that I tried a couple of times that was supposed to have a "hint of lemongrass". All I remember is that it was truly horrendous, but in that particular pub it was the best of a bad lot.

 

[Cestrian]

These description remind me of a Hall and Woodhouse (Badger) beer that I tried a couple of times that was supposed to have a "hint of lemongrass". All I remember is that it was truly horrendous, but in that particular pub it was the best of a bad lot.

That sounds like it might be Sorachi Ace. That is a love it or hate it kind of hop. Described as lemongrass and dill. Still got half a pack in the freezer that I don't know what to do with.

 

[jamow]

Years ago I tried a bottled Bager beer “Golden Champion”. I thought it was the perfect Summer beer, flavoured with elderflower, apparently. Later, having drank a lot of pub cask ales, I went back with great expectations, Looking to base an elderflower pale ale on it. Nope. Haven’t bought it since. The one with ginger in it was a miss from the get go.