Cask ale in a corny?

[St00]

I just fermented off 1 point before FG, added a low amount of DME and put enough Co2 in to seal the keg properly. It doesn't have to be CAMRA approved, I'm just trying things and seeing what works. I'll know what to try next time after it's passed through the sparkler and beer engine.

 

[St00]

I also popped the heatbelt around the keg controlled with an inkbird, cause it can get cold in the garage it's holding between 20-22°c nicely.

 

[foxbat]

Not always. They are, as you probably know, notorious for that. But I swapped all the lid seals for these 5 x Cornelius / Corny Keg Replacement O-ring Seal Kit. Home brewing | eBay. The thicker O-ring makes for a more reliable seal (they also cause the lid seal clips to tighten which can force you to line up the lid well).

'thicker' you say... those you linked to are the only type I've ever seen and they do pull tight when the lid clamps closed. Are there some thinner rings around that don't seal well?

 

[Loonytoone]

Hi everyone

Was hoping you might be able to help me?
I want to replicate a traditional British cask ale on my next brew day, but I don't want to use a cask or plastic barrel/keg (because I am worried about leaks etc.)

I have a corny and wondered if it was OK to suggest using that in place of the cask? No gas on it, just as a vessel? Then lay it out on a slight tilt, maybe invert gas and beer tube, use gravity to serve from it?

My only worry is how long the beer will last with no CO2 on it? I can't see it going inside about 2 weeks, so need it to last really? Is it sacrilegious to suggest putting low CO2 on it once it is ready to drink? Just to keep it good for longer?

Does anyone here do anything similar already?

Thanks!

At the risk of upsetting everyone, I would think the obvious solution is to use a bottom tap kingkeg with a good replacement tap. Prime as normal to keep a blanket of CO2 over the beer and to prevent any air coming in through the tap when pouring. Any lid leakage will not be much of a bother because you don't want much pressure anyway.

I'm a member of CAMRA too but it doesn't mean I agree with the fanatics when it comes to beer temperature or CO2 used to prevent beer going stale because you can't drink it all in three days.

 

[peebee]

At the risk of upsetting everyone, I would think the obvious solution is to use a bottom tap kingkeg with a good replacement tap. Prime as normal to keep a blanket of CO2 over the beer and to prevent any air coming in through the tap when pouring. Any lid leakage will not be much of a bother because you don't want much pressure anyway.

I'm a member of CAMRA too but it doesn't mean I agree with the fanatics when it comes to beer temperature or CO2 used to prevent beer going stale because you can't drink it all in three days.

That's what I used to do (Kingkegs too). But it is impossible to manually control the low CO2 pressures required and will be drinking over-carbonated beer most of the time.

 

[foxy]

I'm a member of CAMRA too but it doesn't mean I agree with the fanatics when it comes to beer temperature or CO2 used to prevent beer going stale because you can't drink it all in three days.

I was of the same mind, but using CO2 produces a different beer, its the influx of air which makes it unique.

 

[peebee]

I was of the same mind, but using CO2 produces a different beer, its the influx of air which makes it unique.

Hum. I'd disagree, and even CAMRA gave up preaching the need for oxygen (air) exposure and accepted "breathers" (devices I don't see of any value to home-brewers BTW). But, not wanting to dictate my prejudices in that "treatise" I wrote (linked 2nd post in this thread), I did include the "air" requirement explaining a method of "intermediate" dispensing containers to avoid risking the bulk of the beer to oxygen: It was actually filched from another forumite (@Dads_Ale, who I haven't seen on this forum for a while), although I think he abandoned the method a while back? I also speculated on a handpump allowing small amounts of beer to be subject (over-night) to "sub-spoiled" which I reckoned has more impact on flavour than contact with oxygen. And finally speculated on using mixed gas to get CO2 "volumes" in the beer below one-ish (saturation level in beer surrounded by only CO2 at 0psi).

But, I reckon if you can control CO2 pressures at very low levels (50-150mbar - i.e. not manually) that does the job.

 

[obscure]

Hum. I'd disagree, and even CAMRA gave up preaching the need for oxygen (air) exposure and accepted "breathers" (devices I don't see of any value to home-brewers BTW). But, not wanting to dictate my prejudices in that "treatise" I wrote (linked 2nd post in this thread), I did include the "air" requirement explaining a method of "intermediate" dispensing containers to avoid risking the bulk of the beer to oxygen: It was actually filched from another forumite (@Dads_Ale, who I haven't seen on this forum for a while), although I think he abandoned the method a while back? I also speculated on a handpump allowing small amounts of beer to be subject (over-night) to "sub-spoiled" which I reckoned has more impact on flavour than contact with oxygen. And finally speculated on using mixed gas to get CO2 "volumes" in the beer below one-ish (saturation level in beer surrounded by only CO2 at 0psi).

But, I reckon if you can control CO2 pressures at very low levels (50-150mbar - i.e. not manually) that does the job.

I find that certain cask beers tend to taste better to me a day or two after they have being tapped. That said I don’t have any issues with cask breathers, or beer dispensed from kegs, you just wouldn’t be able to get the variety in a lot of pubs if they had to risk throwing out half their beer during the week due to low sales.

As for home brew it is a simple reality I will not be able to consume 10L plus of beer before it goes off, so its bottles or kegs that I stick to.

 

[James]

Regulator Game 5 & 8
Not necessary, the 50-150mbar jobs cover "cask" styles most adequately, but the little extra (20-300mbar, that's pushing past 4psi) would come in handy at times. Getting the adapters off the BSP threads is tough

I’ve just been following your (very good) pdf and bought a 50-150mbar reg, hoping the 150 is enough!
If not - further down the rabbit hole
My real issue is failing to checkout on time on maltmiller for ingredients!!

 

[peebee]

I find that certain cask beers tend to taste better to me a day or two after they have being tapped. That said I don’t have any issues with cask breathers, or beer dispensed from kegs, you just wouldn’t be able to get the variety in a lot of pubs if they had to risk throwing out half their beer during the week due to low sales …

Yeap. My treatise covers all that! The "perceived as flat" section. And I find it pretty common for Pubs not to "vent" their beers very well (too hasty) so it's no surprise you prefer beer that's been tapped a day or two. But I don't hold with it being air/oxygen ingress that had a lot to do with "improvements" over only a day.

 

[peebee]

I’ve just been following your (very good) pdf and bought a 50-150mbar reg, hoping the 150 is enough!
If not - further down the rabbit hole
My real issue is failing to checkout on time on maltmiller for ingredients!!

Thank you. 150mbar is about 2psi which you should find enough (about 1.1 "volumes" of CO2). In fact, you might be winding it down a bit (50mbar is about 0.75psi).

I was only pleased to find the 20-300mbar regulators because very occasionally I have beers that seem to benefit from the higher pressure: All strong (dark) beers (like Fuller's 1845) that I would have got as commercial offerings in bottles (which probably explains my preference for slightly higher carbonation in those cases).

 

[James]

The longer I’m out of ingredients the longer I’m conditioned into gassy beer by drinking stuff from tins.
(XTC quote required here - in another life)

 

[Dads_Ale]

Hum. I'd disagree, and even CAMRA gave up preaching the need for oxygen (air) exposure and accepted "breathers" (devices I don't see of any value to home-brewers BTW). But, not wanting to dictate my prejudices in that "treatise" I wrote (linked 2nd post in this thread), I did include the "air" requirement explaining a method of "intermediate" dispensing containers to avoid risking the bulk of the beer to oxygen: It was actually filched from another forumite (@Dads_Ale, who I haven't seen on this forum for a while), although I think he abandoned the method a while back? I also speculated on a handpump allowing small amounts of beer to be subject (over-night) to "sub-spoiled" which I reckoned has more impact on flavour than contact with oxygen. And finally speculated on using mixed gas to get CO2 "volumes" in the beer below one-ish (saturation level in beer surrounded by only CO2 at 0psi).

But, I reckon if you can control CO2 pressures at very low levels (50-150mbar - i.e. not manually) that does the job.

Still here @peebee . Yes I did abandon all the intermediary vessels and Bag in a Box stuff I was looking at. I now use a corny keg and a cask breather. I have a bypass on the breather so as I can add a small amount of pressure if I am not serving for a day or so. I tend to only use it in the winter months as the corny for this does not have temperature control and it can get a bit too warm in the shed.
I find the beer will remain in good condition for many weeks like this but have to look at some new beer lines as the silicone one promotes unwelcome growth inside as it is oxygen permeable, but than can wait until after the summer

 

[obscure]

Yeap. My treatise covers all that! The "perceived as flat" section. And I find it pretty common for Pubs not to "vent" their beers very well (too hasty) so it's no surprise you prefer beer that's been tapped a day or two. But I don't hold with it being air/oxygen ingress that had a lot to do with "improvements" over only a day.

Thank you for that missed this when you originally posted it, and it does make sense that other factors than introduction of air can be at play when it comes to the changes in beer over time.

 

[foxy]

Hum. I'd disagree, and even CAMRA gave up preaching the need for oxygen (air) exposure and accepted "breathers" (devices I don't see of any value to home-brewers BTW). But, not wanting to dictate my prejudices in that "treatise" I wrote (linked 2nd post in this thread), I did include the "air" requirement explaining a method of "intermediate" dispensing containers to avoid risking the bulk of the beer to oxygen: It was actually filched from another forumite (@Dads_Ale, who I haven't seen on this forum for a while), although I think he abandoned the method a while back? I also speculated on a handpump allowing small amounts of beer to be subject (over-night) to "sub-spoiled" which I reckoned has more impact on flavour than contact with oxygen. And finally speculated on using mixed gas to get CO2 "volumes" in the beer below one-ish (saturation level in beer surrounded by only CO2 at 0psi).

But, I reckon if you can control CO2 pressures at very low levels (50-150mbar - i.e. not manually) that does the job.

I can perceive a difference between a cask beer dispensed under CO2 than under air, I now use 10 litre casks to dispense my beer drawn through the hand pump using a spile.
I do know that CAMRA seemed to be reluctantly agreeing to the use of CO2, I posted the article on here a couple of years ago. I would say the attitude changed probably because the numbers of drinkers in the UK is on the decline, leaving a lot of cask beer to go to waste.

 

[Chiplover]

I can perceive a difference between a cask beer dispensed under CO2 than under air, I now use 10 litre casks to dispense my beer drawn through the hand pump using a spile.
I do know that CAMRA seemed to be reluctantly agreeing to the use of CO2, I posted the article on here a couple of years ago. I would say the attitude changed probably because the numbers of drinkers in the UK is on the decline, leaving a lot of cask beer to go to waste.

Hi foxy, I saw a post of yours where you were collecting co2 from fermentation, did you move away from that approach? Also if it worked was it just John guest tube/barb connectors to attach the secondary container?

 

[foxy]

Hi foxy, I saw a post of yours where you were collecting co2 from fermentation, did you move away from that approach? Also if it worked was it just John guest tube/barb connectors to attach the secondary container?

No not moved away from using the CO2 produced by fermentation, I use it to purge the secondary and during transfers. I use the gas and liquid posts on the Snubnose but used a barb on the cubes.

Using a cube as a dispensing vessel with gravity pour then a collapsible water container used for camping is ideal for replacing the vacuum caused by dispensing the beer.
I would like to see something like this for home brewers.
https://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/feature/technology-for-mars-puts-bubbles-into-beer

 

[Chiplover]

No not moved away from using the CO2 produced by fermentation, I use it to purge the secondary and during transfers. I use the gas and liquid posts on the Snubnose but used a barb on the cubes.
View attachment 30117
Using a cube as a dispensing vessel with gravity pour then a collapsible water container used for camping is ideal for replacing the vacuum caused by dispensing the beer.
I would like to see something like this for home brewers.
https://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/feature/technology-for-mars-puts-bubbles-into-beer

Makes a lot of sense. I love the camping vessel idea. Was thinking to modify lid of a pb and connect it to a similar camping vessel using the barb connectors, all I want is to keep my beer longer but always connected to hand pull.

 

[MickDundee]

I watch this thread with interest.

I’m about to move over to Cornies and I plan to do a bitter at some point in my next 5 brews. I was going to carbonate to about 1-1.5 volumes.

Is it worth getting an Intertap stout spout to mimick a beer engine sparkler and knock some of the excess CO2 out? Would that work or just give me a pint of foam?

I kegged my bitter a couple of weeks back and with the right level of carbonation it had no head whatsoever. I ignored the advice I received in response to this post and ordered a stout spout.

I removed the plastic restriction so that only the sparkler disc remained and it worked perfectly. Here’s my bitter at about 5PSI:

It’s quite a nice creamy head it’s given me too, not too unlike the head given by a hand pull sparkler. It’s also knocked a bit of carbonation out.

Overall I’m very happy with how this turned out.

 

[Hoddy]

Hi everyone

Was hoping you might be able to help me?
I want to replicate a traditional British cask ale on my next brew day, but I don't want to use a cask or plastic barrel/keg (because I am worried about leaks etc.)

I have a corny and wondered if it was OK to suggest using that in place of the cask? No gas on it, just as a vessel? Then lay it out on a slight tilt, maybe invert gas and beer tube, use gravity to serve from it?

My only worry is how long the beer will last with no CO2 on it? I can't see it going inside about 2 weeks, so need it to last really? Is it sacrilegious to suggest putting low CO2 on it once it is ready to drink? Just to keep it good for longer?

Does anyone here do anything similar already?

Thanks!

I suggest to watch Jonny on the Craft Beer Channel and maybe employ how he managed to get cask and hand pump pulled beer at home.

Even includes a recipe for Five Points Best Bitter

Part 1

Part 2


You can thank me later