Changes to the highway code.

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Justin Dean

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So Justin Dean I can only deduce that you do believe that a) the roads are not overcrowded b) that the pollution created by motor vehicles is not bad for the environment, or to peoples health?
You don't by any chance belong to the flat earth society as well do you?
Bless you. If it makes happy to make such assumptions then carry on. It does you no favours.
 

DavidDetroit

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Bless you. If it makes happy to make such assumptions then carry on. It does you no favours.
"Road users = registration and road tax?"
Justin, would it not be polite to expound on your first post (above) which is cryptic instead of having the folks there guess and guess at what you mean on this divisive subject?
You have my permission to bless me or wish me happy Hanukkah or whatever else if you wish.
 

Justin Dean

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I thought it was clear. It promotes discussion. If it matters I drive an electric car but I believe still needs electric so pollutes but it is step in the right direction. I cycle like lots of people though i see as many bad cyclists as bad drivers. The vast majority of drivers are like myself respectful of other road users as a pedestrian I do not see any reason to be pushed aside my electric scooters or cyclists bar young children. As to people that get offended and make assumptions about me without even knowing me, I try to forgive but for me there is a line not to cross where I do not forgive. A very few on this forum seem to relish in being offended.
 
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I thought it was clear. It promotes discussion. If it matters I drive an electric car but I believe still needs electric so pollutes but it is step in the right direction. I cycle like lots of people though i see as many bad cyclists as bad drivers. The vast majority of drivers are like myself respectful of other road users as a pedestrian I do not see any reason to be pushed aside my electric scooters or cyclists bar young children. As to people that get offended and make assumptions about me without even knowing me, I try to forgive but for me there is a line not to cross where I do not forgive. A very few on this forum seem to relish in being offended.
Being honest Justin it wasn't at all clear to me what you meant and you still haven't really explained the 'Road users = registration and road tax?' comment; to me it looked like the sort of anti-cyclist remark I see all over the place. If I've jumped to a wrong conclusion about that comment then I'm happy to apologise for that but I am genuinely intrigued to see what the real meaning was.
 

MalcB

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Quick question: how likely is it that a cyclist doesn't also own a car? In the US there is no correlation.
thanks
I don't know the numbers but a great many UK cyclists are also car owners. Obviously this won't apply to kids/teenagers but I would guess the majority of adult cyclists.
 
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Had my first experience of the new H2 (relevant section pasted below) rule today whilst walking through town and have to say I don't think it really adds any value.

I was about to cross a junction but a car was turning left into it, so I stopped but then the car also did as per the new rule. The upshot being the whole process actually took longer for everyone. That is a bit inconvenient but it also has the additional downside of forcing cars to stop/slow and then accelerate more than they would normally which is bad for fuel consumption and emissions.

I also wouldn't be confident to start crossing without knowing the car was stopping so that particular rule feels a bit pointless at the moment.

Rule H2: Rule for drivers, motorcyclists, horse riders and cyclists

At a junction you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning.
 
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Chippy_Tea

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I was about to cross a junction but a car was turning left into it, so I stopped but then the car also did as per the new rule.
The upshot being the whole process actually too longer for everyone.
If that happened to me and it was a single car on a busy main road i would give a hand signal and let the car into the side road, a little courtesy costs nothing.
 
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If that happened to me and it was a single car on a busy main road i would give a hand signal and let the car into the side road, a little courtesy costs nothing.
Yeah, I would have done the same in this situation if I had anticipated what was going on. Hadn't actually expected the car to stop which probably goes to show how entrenched the 'old' ways are.
 

Chippy_Tea

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Yeah, I would have done the same in this situation if I had anticipated what was going on. Hadn't actually expected the car to stop which probably goes to show how entrenched the 'old' ways are.
The problem for pedestrians is they are not going to know if the driver knows the rule and is going to stop we will end up with the pedestrian hesitating as they don't know if the driver is going to stop and the driver hesitating because they don't know if the pedestrian is going to step off the kerb.
 

Davegase

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Had my first experience of the new H2 (relevant section pasted below) rule today whilst walking through town and have to say I don't think it really adds any value.

I was about to cross a junction but a car was turning left into it, so I stopped but then the car also did as per the new rule. The upshot being the whole process actually took longer for everyone. That is a bit inconvenient but it also has the additional downside of forcing cars to stop/slow and then accelerate more than they would normally which is bad for fuel consumption and emissions.

I also wouldn't be confident to start crossed without knowing the car was stopping so that particular rule feels a bit pointless at the moment.

Rule H2: Rule for drivers, motorcyclists, horse riders and cyclists

At a junction you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning.
And how long before the car that stops for a pedestrian while turning left gets rear ended ?
 

Hanglow

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That just looks like a clarification, if someone starts to cross a road before I turn in they obviously have right of way. It's always been that way. I agree though there are so many appalling drivers around I would not feel comfortable as the pedestrian assuming the driver would give way to me

As for rear ending a slow/stopped vehicle, that is obviously on the driver for not paying attention, you can't blame the rules for that.
 

Davegase

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That just looks like a clarification, if someone starts to cross a road before I turn in they obviously have right of way. It's always been that way. I agree though there are so many appalling drivers around I would not feel comfortable as the pedestrian assuming the driver would give way to me

As for rear ending a slow/stopped vehicle, that is obviously on the driver for not paying attention, you can't blame the rules for that.
The new rules mean you have to stop before they start crossing the road. I'm a pedestrian as well as a car driver and I know it's much easier as a pedestrian to wait for the car to pass before I cross !! If drivers use their indicators pedestrians know what their intentions are, but unfortunately as a pedestrian I don't have an indicator. This means as a driver, as well as paying attention to everything else on the road I have to assume that pedestrian is going to cross when he may also be turning left.
I say again it's much easier as a pedestrian to wait for a car to pass at a junction before I cross.
If it ain't broke don't fix it 😉
 

Dads_Ale

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I have had a look through the new code and can't see anything on whether exiting from a roundabout is counted as a junction i.e. you should stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross.
We have a few roundabouts with pedestrian crossings areas (not zebra or controlled by lights) on the exits and I can see a lot of accidents if there is confusion on who has the right of way.
 

MalcB

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Some of the comments on this topic - not just here - amaze me.
Why do people think that pedestrians will launch themselves in front of a turning vehicle because "it's the driver's fault if they get killed". Most pedestrians would rather stay alive.
Most drivers slow down and look before they turn at a junction. Regardless of law changes, it always was their responsibility to look out for pedestrians - and kids, bikes, cats, debris and other vehicles - in the side road. Why is this suddenly contentious?
(And if it's dark, there are these things called headlights. They are for seeing in the dark. And if you can't see stuff in your headlights, you need to slow down. Or visit Specsavers.)
Most drivers slow down if the car in front slows down to turn and don't willy-nilly rear end them. It's not much different if they stop for a pedestrian - if you don't do this, please don't drive.
Most cyclists don't ignore decent cycle paths - why on earth would they? And yes, I avoid the bad ones (and the cars that consider it perfectly OK to park in them).
And so on...
 

rbunsen

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I have had a look through the new code and can't see anything on whether exiting from a roundabout is counted as a junction i.e. you should stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross.
We have a few roundabouts with pedestrian crossings areas (not zebra or controlled by lights) on the exits and I can see a lot of accidents if there is confusion on who has the right of way.
I was also wondering about this and have been unable to find any clarification.
I assume car drivers would have to give way, but absolute clarity on the rule would be appreciated. If anyone finds anything, please post.
 

Davegase

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Some of the comments on this topic - not just here - amaze me.
Why do people think that pedestrians will launch themselves in front of a turning vehicle because "it's the driver's fault if they get killed". Most pedestrians would rather stay alive.
Most drivers slow down and look before they turn at a junction. Regardless of law changes, it always was their responsibility to look out for pedestrians - and kids, bikes, cats, debris and other vehicles - in the side road. Why is this suddenly contentious?
(And if it's dark, there are these things called headlights. They are for seeing in the dark. And if you can't see stuff in your headlights, you need to slow down. Or visit Specsavers.)
Most drivers slow down if the car in front slows down to turn and don't willy-nilly rear end them. It's not much different if they stop for a pedestrian - if you don't do this, please don't drive.
Most cyclists don't ignore decent cycle paths - why on earth would they? And yes, I avoid the bad ones (and the cars that consider it perfectly OK to park in them).
And so on...
It only takes one stupid motorist using a mobile phone to shunt the good driver who has stopped into the innocent pedestrian.
As I said before as a pedestrian I would prefer to wait until the car has passed me. There was no need to change the priorities.
If it ain't broke don't fix it !!
 
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