Chlorine / Chloramine

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Lewisj182

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Hi,

Does anybody know how professional brewery’s remove chloramine from their water?

I know Camden tablets will do but surely they don’t use them?
 

Oneflewover

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Good question! I suspect that not all breweries use tap water but for those that do.....I dunno.
 

dmtaylor

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RO is probably necessary to take it out. I don't know that carbon filtration alone would be effective against chloramine.
 

Druncan

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Curiously, I am asking Brian Yorston from Brewlab for some guidance following up on their course I attended. I need to produce 500L of water without and salts or chloramine from our hard water bore hole supply. Will let you know when I get a response athumb..
 

scomet

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Hi,

Does anybody know how professional brewery’s remove chloramine from their water?

I know Camden tablets will do but surely they don’t use them?
If you get chance get a tour of a modern large scale 'Brewery' They are giant chemical plants, their water treatment plants would put most water authorities to shame! The 'yeast room' is more secure than most biohazard plants. Nothing is left to chance from front gate to back fence, 100% computerised.
 

Druncan

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Breweries use carbon filters (amongst others) and Brewlab is the yeast store many breweries use now as they have limited in-house storage. They have two stores at different premises in Sunderland. After Covid 1 many breweries struggled with their yeast strains and Brewlab had to restart from slopes. Interesting eh!
 
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I had a discussion with the guys at Vyair about removing chloramine not long back in connection with my own 4-stage RO machine - which despite having an activated carbon filter does not effectively remove chloramine I’m sorry to say.

To remove chloramine you need a catalytic carbon filter. This is an improved version of activated carbon.

Ordinary carbon filters do not remove chloramine. Activated carbon filters do but only if the flow rate is very low (the water needs to be in contact with the activated carbon for quite a while). Catalytic carbon filters will remove chloramine at a much faster rate than activated carbon and is recommended.
 

Alastair70

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I had a discussion with the guys at Vyair about removing chloramine not long back in connection with my own 4-stage RO machine - which despite having an activated carbon filter does not effectively remove chloramine I’m sorry to say.

To remove chloramine you need a catalytic carbon filter. This is an improved version of activated carbon.

Ordinary carbon filters do not remove chloramine. Activated carbon filters do but only if the flow rate is very low (the water needs to be in contact with the activated carbon for quite a while). Catalytic carbon filters will remove chloramine at a much faster rate than activated carbon and is recommended.
But, am I right in assuming chloramine will not cross the RO filter?
 

scrap iron

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Chloramines are most commonly formed when ammonia is added to chlorine to treat drinking water. RO systems will remove them if a carbon block filter is used. After years of buying RO water from the local grocery store and moving to my forever house I bought a 4- stage unit. After the sediment filter there is a carbon block filter then on to the membrane and final polish with activated carbon. It removes all the disinfectants. The block looks like a solid tube of carbon inside.
 

scrap iron

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I too add small amount but use NAMB plus a little Ascorbic Acid to RO water. This is part of the low oxygen method using RO water. In addition to using the 4- stage RO this should eliminate all disinfectant needed. I have never had any ill effects in beer. These are very small amounts like 1/2 gram each in 6 gal mash water. Here is something on AA, it's been in use a long time.
Vitamin C for chlorine/chloramine removal | Community | BeerAdvocate
 

scomet

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But, am I right in assuming chloramine will not cross the RO filter?
It depends on the make / model and quality of the membrane, ask for one that is chloramine compatible Dow-Filmtech make one the is made in the US of A. The Chinese ones are rubbish they will say "designed to give 10ppm" ie dont work but look the part, Cheers.
 

scrap iron

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I found these;
Views?:roll:
That looks similar to one I just ordered. I had been looking into chloramine use and am wanting to do what I can to reduce it before the RO membrane to prolong it's life.
Matrikx 36-250-10-GREEN 2 ¾ ” x 9 ¾ “ (70mm x 248mm) 1 micron >30,000 gallons @ 1gpm >114,000 litres @ 3.8 l/min >3,400 gallons @ 0.5gpm >12,920 litres @ 1.9 l/min 3.5 psid @ 1gp
I plan on installing this after the sediment filter but will probably put the regular carbon block after to catch any particulate that was said to exit the catalytic carbon. I have an extra filter housing around and will plumb it in making a 4 stage into a 5 stage system.
As I have been reading some more on the subject it appears that ammonia is left after breaking down the chloramines. Does anyone have any knowledge about that subject, does the membrane remove it or is it a problem?
 

scrap iron

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I have done some further reading on this and found that ammonia is changed to ammonium by the low ph of RO water. The RO membrane then can remove up to 97% of it. Also ammonium is a yeast nutrient. So it looks like one would only need a catalytic carbon block for chloramine in a 4-stage system and the membrane and low ph should take care of the rest.
I just have a high school education, but the more into brewing I get the more I am into learning new things.

" The ammonium ion is a yeast nutrient. Any residual metabisulfite/sulfur dioxide will not harm the beer, but act as an antioxidant."
Removing Chlorine from Brewing Water - Fermentation | Inspiration for edible alchemy (myfermentation.com)
 
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